NOSValves Posted August 27, 2002 Share Posted August 27, 2002 I'm off to fort benning for my sons Graduation of boot camp and then to Danocasters to pickup my Lascalas. So I should have some fun sunday and monday with the Lascalas talk to you all then !!!! Craig ------------------ HH Scott 299 Amp HH Scott LT-110B Tuner HH Scott P-87 Turn Table JVC JL-F50 Turn Table Sony CDP-CA7ES CD Drive 1985 Walnut Heresey I W/Layne Audio Woofers KSW-15 Subs>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 27, 2002 Share Posted August 27, 2002 IF you are in Georgia, anywhere NEAR the Atlanta area, please see if you can drop by Edster's place to hear his setup. See if he is around.... After reading your last comments on your idea that SET amps cant even drown out talking, I am almost annoyed enough to fly you here! Listen to Edster's Moondogs on his Khorns! heh.... Exposure to new things is a GOOD thing. And you have to admit, you are pretty new to the tube world and have not heard a lot of gear. I hope you will be near his abode! kh ps- You can also do some NOS repairs or upgrades on ole Edster's Scott... EARN YOUR KEEP! heh.... Damn, you have probably already left....gone....selah. This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 08-27-2002 at 03:37 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted August 27, 2002 Share Posted August 27, 2002 Craig, You are welcome to stop by this weekend but I'm not sure that my room will be done by then. The builder says he is finishing on Friday but I'll bet a dollar to a donut it won't be done by then. My rig is not set up and won't be until they lay the carpet. Give me a call and I'll update you on the progress. Congratualtions to your son! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 27, 2002 Share Posted August 27, 2002 Oh yeah....I keep forgetting you were having your room done over. Oh well, he is probably gone anyway. btw, I popped in my VT95 CRC RCA 2A3 in after 3 months on the shelf. First hour....so-so. Then.... MAN. I keep forgetting what an amazing tube this is. So sublime....You melt in your chair with these beasts in! They are way more musical than the Sovtek as well as more resolving... they have a certain harmonic richness/life about them that I have not heard from any other 2A3. Man, I wish they werent so fragile... The Moondogs run the voltage a bit high so I worry about them... They are like children! kh ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted August 27, 2002 Share Posted August 27, 2002 The last post I made was from my work computer. I just got home and the workmen didn't get as much done today and we were promised (big surprise). Everything is pushed back another day (at least). I can't beleive these dudes doing the room, if they show up before noon it is a miracle and they are always gone by 4pm. This contractor came highly recommended...needless to say I am not impressed. I sure was hoping to get the rig back together over the labor day weekend, I miss it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted August 27, 2002 Share Posted August 27, 2002 All I can gather is that Craig likes it loud. So 1.5 or 3.5 watts will probably never float his boat. I'm curious to see where he goes after he finally gets his fill of Scott integrated amps. But he may be happy where he is at. Lotsa designs out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 Craig doesn't think that SET can get loud? For chr***sake, what is he thinking? I can get the household AC wires in the walls rattling against the wallboard with my 8 watters. The ceiling panels shake and drop dust. You can feel the air pushing against your chest and pantsleg. Hey, I'm not a headbanger, that's not so loud that the sound is distorted. But sure, you could carry on a conversation, WITH MEGAPHONES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 "Craig doesn't think that SET can get loud? For chr***sake, what is he thinking?" Denial is often a safe defense defense mechanism. ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 08-28-2002 at 11:25 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 In Craig's case, all joking aside, I just dont think he has heard a wide range of tube gear yet. He is still a tube newbie but has progressed faster than the speed of light with his soldering and fixing of Scott gear. Based on the pictures, he really does a good job. Hard to believe he just got into it. All SET amps are not created equal and all systems are not capable of bringing out the best. Indeed, in a way, there is nothing more frustrating than setting up your first SET amp and getting the most out of it. At least starting off with excellent speakers that are over 100dB is a beginning. Sometimes, it's hard for people to resist making statements about a whole topology based on one or two samples. In addition, I believe it actually takes some past knowledge of system setup as well as some experience to really get the most from these type setups. Also, hearing ANY amp plopped into a new system at an event or happening is almost always LESS than ideal bordering on BAD, even when good gear is involved. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 Given my VERY limited exposure to tubes, and with a less than an ideal initial setup. There was enough dynamics displayed and musical involvement encountered to let me know straight away, that the SET thing had lots of musical potential. ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 Ditto, Wes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike82 Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 Craig If you come through Atlanta, you're welcome to stop by and hear the Khorn/SET rig (the diminutive Korneff 45 tube amp). I'm in Roswell, adjacent to Atlanta on the north side- very near Edster. While I enjoy my vintage Fisher 400 in my second system, you can't beat the dynamics of the SET rig. Regards, Mike ------------------ 2 Channel Transport: CEC TL-2X DAC: Audiomat Maestro Pre-amp: Wyetech Jade Amps: Jeff Korneff 45 Interconnects/Speaker cable: Analysis Plus Solo Monocrystal Power cords/line conditioner: CPCC Top Gun, Model 11, Super Power Block Equip Stand: Grand Prix Audio Monaco Belle Klipsch, K-horns Second system- My dad's old Fisher 400-refurbished, Heresy II, Vecteur Variation CD player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 Mike82, Are you going to be around this weekend? Since my room is not going to be finished and I am not going to be putting my system back together this weekend...I was wondering if I could come by and take a listen to the Jeff Korneff and your Khorns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bev Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 Ed... I feel your pain regarding your contractor and building your room...not getting done as quickly as promised??? Hang in there! Rule #1 of building: However long they tell you it will take, double it. Rule #2: However much they tell you it will cost, add 10%...at least. Rule #3: Yes, you will feel like you lost your mind, but it'll be worth it when they're done. (At least that's what everyone's telling me....) Bev ------------------ Love & kisses on your Klipsch's!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 Hi Bev, welcome back! I hear you about the whole building/contractor thing, went through it when we built this house. What ticks me off is this is that these folks won't work! 2-3 hours a day normally and miss a day or two a week. They have turned a 6 week max job into a 9+ week job. My wife keeps threatening them but we didn't put a comoletion date penalty clause in the contract. The general contractor is a very nice guy, does great work and came highly recommended from some friend's of ours. It is the subs he is using that just don't give a ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bev Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 I wonder if they have a subcontractor school....?? "how to work part-time and get paid full-time 101" My 6-8 months to build my house is now almost a year and a half....and for the past 3 months, it's been "2 more weeks, 2 more weeks...." Bev ------------------ Love & kisses on your Klipsch's!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 31, 2002 Author Share Posted August 31, 2002 Holly Molly !!!! You Set guy's are ganging up on me here !!!! My statement about the Set amp not being able to drown out the noise at the Chicago Horn Club meating was absolutely true. The amp was a 1 1/2 Watt 45 tube based rig and when the 10 people in the room would shut up it did sound nice but wasn't even close to powerfull enough for my taste and I mean not even close !!! I believe that most of you guys using Khorns and Set (8 Watts not 1 1/2) probably do have plenty a volume and headroom but there is no way I will ever have Khorns unless I move. Although the Lascalas a just picked up will most likely do well with a Set amp. I wasn't really talking about all set amps if Mobile would go back and read the thread and see what I was replying to when I made that statement it was about someone else saying that Tube amps in general don't have enough Dynamics compared to SS and he couldn't stand anymore tube amps after being at the Lima Horn fest. I was trying to find out what type of amps he had a chance to audition at Lima and see if they where all of the ultra low wattage like the one I spoke about. Where am I going from here. Well this winter I'm going to build me a pair of Class A Push Pull Mono blocks to go along with the PAS 2 I picked up a few weeks ago I'm going to use vintage Iron that I have already acquire and will most likely make the amp so it can roll many different output tubes like 6L6's , EL34's and the like. If I ever do venture into the world of Set Amps I can tell you one thing I'll build it myself that's for sure. I'm way to cheap and have to much fun working on this stuff to pay the Highway robbery prices most of these Audiophile Amp builders charge for there amps. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 heh.... Too bad you didnt get to hear someone's system... But to answer your last point, it isnt highway robbery at all when you consider the cost of the air-gapped output transformers which are more costly to acquire, especially if going with some of the custom iron places today, not to mention the chokes, power trans, and other parts. In fact, the used prices for many of these handmade, point to point wired set amps is really reasonable compared to most handmade things in this world. Most of these amps are monoblocks as well. I appreciate your wanting to "roll your own" but the highway robbery comments is a bit out of line. I have a good friend that makes all his own amps. He lives in Quebec and I was just up there listening to his system. He just made a pair of beautiful birdseye maple, brushed copper, Parallel-Feed Cobalt output, 300B single-ended Monoblocks. The actual cost of his parts including outputs, chokes, wire, parts, wood, etc was: $2300! With permalloy Output Iron, it would be $1900. With M4 the price would drop to $1600. I admit, he bought some of the best output iron in the World but remember that these amps are just figuring the parts, and NO LABOR (also I am unsure about the Canadian-US money thing, he sent me these quotes last week). btw, the custom hand made COBALT transformers are VERY expensive... too much for my blood. Of course, you can make a SET/PP amp for a LOT cheaper if you go with bargain parts, but many of these amps use high quality iron that is NOT CHEAP. MagneQuest, Electra-Print, Sowter, Tango, Tamura, Audio Note etc outputs for single-ended amps are sometimes MORE THAN the cost of these amps used. Although many things are priced high, this notion of "highway robbery" is really a bit off the cuff. kh ps- You didnt make any distinction that I remember regarding the specifics of your SET amp experience. You just did the typical "SET AMPS" thing. If you had said a 1.5w 45 amp, it would have been different. The details matter... as they do in ALL things. This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 08-31-2002 at 07:50 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 31, 2002 Author Share Posted August 31, 2002 Mobile, I realise that parts cost bucks. But what your friend pays for the parts and what a regular amp builder is 2 different things all together. If so and so amp company had a cost of say $2000 in parts to build such and such amp they would most likely put a MSRP on the Amp of $8000 and that may be low !!! When the companies design there amps they don't buy 1 set of transformers or 10 resistors and Caps they buy hundreds or thousands if there going to sell a bunch and cut there per unit cost considerably. Heck I can cut the cost on resistors by 30% by just buying 20 at a time same goes for caps. I garrantee you that there isn't one major Audiophile Amp company that isn't working on at least a 300% MSRP above there cost. Yes iron costs money but it doesn't cost major manufacturers that kind of money at all. Any specialty company works on enormous markups simply because they can. This is true of all such companies. Hot rod parts are the same way for cars. Such and Such company comes out with headers for 99 Camaro's and prices them at $900 a set ..... Cost to build these headers is about $100. Its all about what the market will bear. Three years later dozens of companies sell headers for the same car and the cost averages out to $200 for a set. The market won't bear the redicules price anymore. Craig PS I know I didn't make my point very clear about the 1 1/2 watt amp. No big deal. I'm sure that a set amp can really sing ! I'm just not willing to pay the price at this time for what I feel would be a pour return on the money spent. Maybe later !! This message has been edited by NOS440 on 08-31-2002 at 08:08 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 Well if you read my post, I WAS DISCUSSING what it costs for a person to DIY a high quality SET amp, something you said would be the only way for you to do it to avoid highway robbery. And this has NOTHING TO DO WITH parts bought in bulk etc. This is the cost for you if you attempted to make such an amp which is my whole point. Of course, you could try to source out vintage iron, but if you price some of the transformers of this era, you will find the prices ALL high. Price some Peerless iron and see where it comes to. $1000-1700 for a pair of monoblocks someone else hand builds that has a lot of experience is about the farthest thing from highway robbery I can think of. Words have connotations and these are a bit steep. But I do see what you are saying. But as my DIY buddies say, dont even get into DIY to save money...when you factor in the LABOR involved as well as sourcing the parts, it ends up costing more. Hop on the DIY Tube Asylum and ask! heh... kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 08-31-2002 at 08:26 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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