Parrot Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1377345412This will go for a pretty penny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 Rule #1: Dont post things that good on thy forum. Watch as the price goes up, up, and up.... kh ps-yeah, that is about as rare as it gets. ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted August 30, 2002 Author Share Posted August 30, 2002 I couldn't resist. You know it wasn't going to go at bargain rates anyway. Several months ago there was an unassembled kit of the monoblock Eico HF-60. In the original box and everything. Went for $1000. Pretty wild considering the original price was $72.95. I hope the eventual buyer buys new caps rather than put in ones 40 or so years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 Actually that rule should only apply if you indend to bid on the item yourself.....otherwise I feel it's just Klipsch - o - philes helping out other Klipsch people. Mobile, you have been know to post stuff, a many of a time... NOS440 maybe you can grab this one. At least you will know for sure it was not messed up before ... Gosh, that's a rare find. Like a time capsule, I never thought I would see a unbuilt one. Sure is tempting, but alas I have to save for my Turntable, Cary Pre-amp, and 2A3 amp... God, will this quest never end... - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 I'm drooling! That's awesome! What a way to get vintage! ------------------ Andy 78 Khorns (20' apart!) Audire Difet 3 Preamp Adcom GFA 535 II NAD 4130 Tuner Marantz CD 63SE Pioneer DV 434s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 I know I'm to blame sometimes when blowing the cover off of eBay and AudiogoN equipment, but no longer. If you don't have the means to go out and find what you are looking for, you don't deserve to get it. Nothing goes unnoticed or unsaid on this Forum. It's also a well known fact that half the Eico HF-81's sold on Ebay are by members of this board. You can't slip anything by this place anymore. My feeling is if you know someone that is interested in the unit, then Email them personally. Otherwise, let 'em fend for themselves... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 The dude did a great job with the pics in his auction also, gotta give him credit! Someone here need to put that thing together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 mdeneen, I'll race you to Oregon for the Mullards.(only kidding) Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 The EICO HF-81 was the first amp to really shatter some of my preconceived notions about sound and parts in a PP amp. The transformers are key but the fact that this beast can make such sounds even in stock form with ceramic disc galore leaves you feeling weak. But what I am really posting about is the idiotic EBAY patrons and their penchant for BIDDING up to NINE DAYS before the end of an auction! IT is absolutely mind boggling and makes NO sense at all, only serving to up the bid higher and higher as if in total cohorts with the seller. Except they dont even have this excuse! What gives here? Is the need to see your name on the screen this important to drive a $9 opening auction into the hundreds before 24 hours is up? And with NINE days left??? It's insane. Brain damage. kh ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 I agree with mdeneen, the value in that unbuilt HF-81 is as a museum piece. Museums have big budgets and will pay top dollar for such a glass case example of history. They will outbid any audiophile interest. The historical value might way exceed the cost of putting something together that would give you the same sound. Seems to me, if you were going to have to solder that thing up anyway, it would make more sense to acquire a cheap junker HF-81 and salvage the good transformers, then build it from scratch using good quality new parts and NOS tubes. Put on a fresh chassis and edit the schematic down to the relevant essence eliminating extraneous functions and switches which may have no contempory use. This, on the presumption that this circuit has some kind of synergistic magic for you. If this is some kind of magic circuit, then the only thing you need to capture that quality are those vintage transformers, the rest can be improved upon, and NOS tubes can be obtained. No biggie. Brings up the question, is this unit inherently worthwhile, or merely worthwhile when it is a vintage bargain requiring a minimum of investment and or effort. If it is inherently worthwhile then it would be worthwhile to build from scratch with a couple of the vintage transformers and the essence of the schematic and the usual high cost NOS tubes. If it is inherently worthwhile, and new equivalent transformers might be available, seems like someone should manufacture a modern version from the essence of the circuit. Are schematics copyrighted and/or patented or can anyone build them and market them? Really, how hard is it to obtain transformers today that can do what those old HF-81 transformers did? Good transformers, if you can find them,NOS tubes, the essence of the schematic, doesn't seem like a big mystery. Would it really be worth it to you, comparing to same price alternatives, that is the question? I am wondering how different the quality of the transformers used in Fisher, and Scott, since both companies had pp 6BQ5/EL64 integrateds on the market during the same period. Is it the transformers or the schematics which determine the different evaluations ? Then again, you might buy that unbuilt HF-81 and whip that thing together with your old soldering iron only to find that you yourself have just made one of the lemons and you cannot figure out why. Go figure. Who knows, might be subtle variations in the chassis metallurgy causing mysterious ground loops.....might be the electrons all decided to huddle on one side and go on strike, highly improbable, but not absolutely impossible in that probability does not really state absolute absolutes, .......not anything is not impossible. -C&S PS: Re eBay bidding: The early low bidders are irrelevant to the final price. The last minute informed bidders determine the price regardless of the early bids. This unbuilt Eico HF-81 will end up in the $650-750 neighborhood mostly because of the undisputed value of the NOS tubes. If museum collector folks are back from vacations, maybe even more. The early bids are important because it encourages the seller to leave the item in the auction. Sellers who see no bids toward the end of an auction will often pull the auction off entirely rather than risk a lowball result. They often then relist with a substantial reserve price. ------------------ Cornwalls currently upgrading to all tube components triamping custom built speakers. This message has been edited by Clipped and Shorn on 08-31-2002 at 03:02 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 I'm with C&S, why couldn't the schematic be simplified down to the essentials, equivilent quality transformers found and new units built? Really only need a couple inputs, dump the tape head input and other unneeded stuff. Are 16 and 4 ohm speaker taps really needed? Seems like the skills are here on the board to analyze the circuits for what's really needed and breadboard a unit or two for testing. I'd be willing to do the grunt work of building up the test units if somebody wants to try, the circuit analysis is the hard part and needs somebody who understands tube amps and what all can be left out. Anybody interested? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 Any unbuilt kit Amp or tuner or whatever that gets listed on Ebay will go for monster bucks. Its fun to watch the people bid but getting it is only a dream and building it would be just plain stupid from a investment stand point. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 Early bidding DOES drive up the price. Period. Having been an ebay watcher and user for the last six years, I have seen it time and time again. The ones that KNOW in the end are clever enough to not go over what needs to be done. When some idiots drive the $9.99 startup price to 200 within the first 24 hours, it serves a call to others. As for the cost, to get just the completely unused and new Mullards and output iron would be a deal at $400-$500 considering the JUNK you get today. This amp will probably go for a lot higher as well. As for making one, I have been talking to the guy from the "Firebottles" site in the past, and we have always wanted to make a modern version of the HF-81 using the output/power iron without all the switching, tone controls, and other superfluous stuff in the original, with an eye on part selection as well. I bought my SECOND Eico for this VERY thing! But the damn thing was so good, I couldnt bring myself to tear it down, even at the $100 I paid. I'll probably sell it to someone before parting it out. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 08-31-2002 at 07:56 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted August 31, 2002 Author Share Posted August 31, 2002 It may be more complicated than finding transformers with similar specs. It may be finding transformers with similar specs that have aged for 40+ years. Somebody can shoot me down if I'm wrong, but I would think the sound of the transformers changes after decades of use. Maybe good units sound better now than they did around 1959. This message has been edited by paulparrot on 08-31-2002 at 07:36 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 mobile homeless, I get first dibbs on your HF-81 !!!! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 Heh... you and 10 others! heh... Craig, you wouldnt believe how many people have offered to buy that old beast! Scary. There was reportedly a guy from Japan that was buying them up four years ago right and left. I AM probably going to sell my second unit and now I am trying to remember all the guys that I told "you will be the first in line!" kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 Forget the rest I'm a good current first in liner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 Not to pick a nit or anything but I was first in line in January..! reminder> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 Mdeneen, although I respect your knowledge, I have been talking with the holder of all the rights and designs paperwork of Peerless and Acrosound transformers. He also has the tools/winders etc from Peerless and Acrosound. In addition, he was able to get tutelage from one of the original winders of these transformers (he is now in his early 70s). In all our talks, I can say there is a LOT MORE to transformers than iron and wire. A LOT MORE. A lot of these units were wound by hand using a guide just like this below: The iron core for these pieces were indeed different and the workmanship was for the hand-wound units was not like today. I have spent hours (literally) talking to Mike LaFevre about the history of these pieces and craftsmanship involved. There is also a lot of theory here. There are different grades of wire, iron, cobalt, gaps etc etc. It is actually quite an art with some master craftman. Many of these pieces were not wired with an automated machine. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 I thought Eico and the other kits were offered in their day as economical budget alternatives for the DIYer. Certainly during that period when a bezillion transformers were manufactured for nearly every piece of electronic gear civilian and military, there must have been mass production devices of some kind involved in their manufacture. You certainly are not saying that the Eico HF-81 transformers were made differently than the other bezillion "high fidelity" transformers at that time. I do know that the output transformers on my Eico-35 are quite excellent both in how they sound here in the house and what they looked like on the scope, so the particular manufacturer they used had a good product. I imagine the manufacturer of the transformers for Eico kits also sold their product to other companies as well. Regarding musical instruments, I know there can be subtle and sometimes mysterious factors effecting certain legendary successes. The varnish formula for Strat violins and the exact multi-metal alloy used in the brass for the Selmer Mark VI saxophones are two examples which come to mind. I would think the formula for the good old transformers would be somewhat simpler to crack, although perhaps expensive today. I know that the old Tesla Coil transformers with their quadrillion windings of super fine wire are valuable today because they would be so much more expensive to make today and not many doing it anymore. I believe an electronic transformer does not possesses any qualities of electronic import which cannot be seen with test equipment, so it is a matter of finding the most effective method of manufacturer today which can precisely duplicate the specs we are looking for that existed in the vintage. If there is a factor due to the quality of the copper or iron, it will show up on the bench test, and this would prompt further searching and adjustments. To not beleive so is mysticism not engineering. If it is truly the case that some kind of wire is not made anymore or that it is impossible to find the conforming iron to duplicate the specs, then I guess it will not be practical to expect the possibility of contemporary duplication and vintage will have to be used. I was, however, under the impression that fine quality transformers were still being made today, although expensive. -C&S ------------------ Cornwalls currently upgrading to all tube components Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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