sprocket Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 Hello all I've picked up the moondog amps that I purched on Audiogon last week. Oh Boy! I was told these amps were heavy, however untill you lift them "heavy" is only a word. They look nice but the clear coat finish on the walnut was poorly applied and it detracts from the overall. Repairing this is a low priority. It will require a small disassembly. The task at hand is to listen. I will report on that later. Inside the wiring is very well done. I'll try to borrow a digital camera and post some photos. I'll have to ask how that's done exactly. The only issue I have is that the reported "Audio Note" capacitors are "Jensen Copper Foil" instead. When I found out about this I called the seller and we talked about why this was so. He reported his good friend was the one who built the amps (4 months ago) and at that time he believed his friend said that Audio Note caps were installed. He thinks he, the builder got them from Ron Welborne but he, the seller never looked inside. The seller seems very accomindating and stated he would get the caps as advertised if I felt it was required. He felt they were not very expensive and I didn't request that he do so. Did I do the right thing?? Are the Jensens about the same? Advise please. I just returned from a out of state trip and the seller knows I have not had time to think it through or listen to the amps. There may still be an opportunity to change my mind and get the Audio Note caps. Thanks in advance for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 I wouldn't sweat Jensen Copper Foils over Audio Note. I think you already have the better caps, I could be wrong. Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 I'm not totally sure but I believe they are the same caps with a different name in them. I belive mobil will know for sure or maybe MDeneen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 Yeah, I think Jensen makes caps for Audio Note. Not sure, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 To clear this matter up once and for all, Jensen made caps for Audio Note for years. Same with Angela caps and a few others. These were all Jensen, just renamed. Jensen has been in business for over 50 years and is one of the top manufacturers of oil caps with excellent sonics and quality constuction. I have some older Audio Note copper foil oil caps (which are Jensen) in my Moondogs. So dont fret about the Jensen label; they are excellent caps. However, about two years ago, Audio Note decided to branch out and leave Jensen as a supplier to make their OWN brand of caps that do, in fact, look different from the Jensens with different measurements. They also have a different contruction as well. Also, Audio Note has brought in some Silver foil caps that are reportedly AMAZING but quite costly. From all reports, the Audio Note caps are very well made. Their copper foil caps are well received. So if you bought an Audio Note cap in the last 1.5 years or so, it was more than likely actually of Audion Note contruction. But as said, dont sweat the distinction if you happen to have Jensens; BOTH are very well made caps with amazing sonics. I am a big proponent of oil caps from either of these manufacturers. kh ps- I have never seen anyone put a load of finish on the Moondogs like that. Most of their chassis' have excellent finish. I have not seen ant done poorly as you speak of. That is just bad luck there. Hopefully, the sonics will make up for it. The battery bias will be an interesting difference to report. Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 08-31-2002 at 09:21 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 sprocket, It's been over 8 hrs now since your post. How do they sound??????(Just kidding) Congratulations on purchasing and now receiving your Moondogs. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprocket Posted September 1, 2002 Author Share Posted September 1, 2002 It takes a lot of roumds of "Counter Strike" to wareout my 15 year old son. Meanwhile I patiently wait for a turn on the computer. Can anyone relate?? So here's the moondog update: I've got good news and bad news. The amps seem to perform their expected magic. They are silent when they should be and deliver dynamics by the truck load when asked. They are smooth and silky through the upper end and as airy in the mids as my system can allow. I enjoyed all the familiar Jazz (lion-share of my collection), some Clasical stuff that sees regular duty in my home and some new things as well. The older rock showed up for the party also. It wasn't easy to pull away. So what the rub you ask?? My system is perhaps dimished by these amps. That may not be the correct wording as it implies I'm not happy. I'm infact DAM HAPPY. However it now is becoming clear that the rest of the components are for the first time found to be lacking. Maybe I had large expectation also. My sad cd player (sony ES 5 disc) is allready ageing and asked to feed amps that are ageless. The preamp (Acurus RL11), which has always served me well is solid state. Although it still seems to be invisible it may not mate well with tubes. The 84 Cornwalls, well I can't complain there. Before these amps I was using Bottlehead Paramours. I still have em if interested. An outstanding falue for the dollar. Perhaps they too were not performing at their best due to the rest of the system, however I had less expectations. After all they don't have silver wire, fancy resistors or battery bias. So what to do from here... Update the cd player? Update the tubes (presently all Sovtek)? Plan for a new preamp? Fire away with those sugestions. This message has been edited by sprocket on 09-01-2002 at 05:18 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 Lordy, the PREAMP is extremely important with SET amps of this caliber. Ditto with the source. Ditto with the wire. I cannot stress how important the preamp is here. I used to say this and get crickets. I think more than a few have realized this, especially those that own tube equipment of this caliber. Not to put you in the hole mentally, but the Acurus R11, though competent enough, is just not on the same plain here. No question. With a better preamp you will get a major step forward in dynamics, resolution, with hopefully a corresponding reduction in grain. I havent liked a solid state preamp since the 80s, to be honest. Even a passive would give you far more jump factor for little ducats although a good tube offering will take you even further. The Sony ES series was OK when it was new. I have never been a huge Sony fan but their ES series did have better parts. How old is this player? What is the processor? Now you say you have ALL Sovtek, right? You CANT mean you have Sovtek 6SN7 and a Sovtek rectifier? Please tell me you dont have Sovtek in the 6SN7? If you DO have Sovtek for your 6SN7 selections, then STOP RIGHT THERE AND BACKUP! heh... These are literally some of the worst 6SN7s I know of! You cant go ANYWHERE but UP here! So look forward to a huge improvement if this is what you have. What EXACTLY do you have in the rectifier and input/driver sockets? Evidently, this loon that sold you the amp pretty much took all the quality NOS tubes with it. The Sovtek are ok enough in the 2A3 socket, but everywhere else, you should not SEE the name Sovtek if you are looking for great sound. Some thoughts on the Moondogs - http://home.earthlink.net/~ivol/audio/moondog.htm c> For preamp recs, what will be your price range? Once you sell all the other stuff, you might have some extra ducats to play with. Same with the CD. Hey, you never even mentioned the cable? heh... kh ps - Yeah, just reread that... lordy. Congratulations on your new amps. Enjoy it for awhile. Nothing worse than someone coming with three or four paragraphs of blather. This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 09-01-2002 at 08:01 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprocket Posted September 1, 2002 Author Share Posted September 1, 2002 Mobile when you begin with the word "Lordy" I know I'm in deep trouble. Every change I've made to my system in the past has brought a big smile to my face. Somtimes even a "WOW". When I replaced the Adcom pre with the Acurus I said "wow". The first time i tried some decent cables also. I was expecting a similar experience here with the moon-puppies. I do indead have Sovetek 6sn7gt tubes. Also Sovtek 5ar4 and 2a3. The seller told me to try some tube rolling. He reported that this was a must, if the amp was going to truly light-up sound wise. Care to List some recommendations and sources?? I think you're saying this should be the first step. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 Drop me another email at the last address you wrote me. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 sprocket, Don't despair! I am not able to give you better advice on your Moondogs that Kelly, but by all means you need some good 6SN7's in those amps as well as decent rectifiers. The Sovtek 2A3's are a very nice sounding tube, I would upgrade the others first. For a relatively inexpensive preamp you can give the Creek OBH-12 a trial, it is passive but it is remarkable for it's price. A decent tubed preamp will ultimately serve you well IMHO. I am also willing to bet you will find a "WOW" improvement with your source(s). Without putting a second mortage on your home you can pick up an Ah! Tjoeb or Rega CD player and they are top notch. Keep in touch with Kelly...he knows his stuff and won't steer you wrong. Keep us posted with your progress! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 quote: Originally posted by edster00: ...Don't despair!...Keep in touch with Kelly...he knows his stuff and won't steer you wrong. As stated mobile will plot you an excellent course. Do heed it, you will avoid the error I made in selecting an initial preamp for my SET amps. Many preamps considered very good, simply do not convey the detail and dynamics SET's of your caliber can provide. Be sure to follow his preeminent rule in an equipment upgrade strategy...patience..patience..patience. You will be rewarded with an excellent musically and involving 2 channel system. Wes ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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