arena Posted September 4, 2002 Share Posted September 4, 2002 i heard that horns (especially horn loaded tweeters) sacrifice detail/clarity for efficiency/loudness. any truth to this? ------------------ two channel old schooler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike82 Posted September 4, 2002 Share Posted September 4, 2002 Absolutely not!! In my experience, horns are more detailed because of the nature of their design. The diaphragm needs to move only microns to create the sound while the horn amplifies the sound. The miniscule amount of movement of the horn diaphragm permits low level resolution to be better reproduced than dome or cone drivers, including tweeters. The horn loaded tweeter may be more directional, however I view that characteristic as an asset since room boundaries usually tend to muck up sound. But the proof is in the listening. Prior to getting the K-horns, I was listening to a $10K hybrid (horn/Dynamic) design which sounded petty great, but with both the Belle and K-horn I'm hearing low level resolution I've not heard before on either conventional dynamic driver or hybrid horn. The Avant-Garde website used to have an explanation of horn efficiency and why they offer better resolution. ------------------ 2 Channel Transport: CEC TL-2X DAC: Audiomat Maestro Pre-amp: Wyetech Jade Amps: Jeff Korneff 45 Interconnects/Speaker cable: Analysis Plus Solo Monocrystal Power cords/line conditioner: CPCC Top Gun, Model 11, Super Power Block Equip Stand: Grand Prix Audio Monaco Belle Klipsch, K-horns Second system- My dad's old Fisher 400-refurbished, Heresy II, Vecteur Variation CD player This message has been edited by Mike82 on 09-04-2002 at 11:28 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted September 4, 2002 Share Posted September 4, 2002 Mike is right Arena. Don't listen to horn bashers, better listen to horns and judge for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted September 4, 2002 Share Posted September 4, 2002 Somebody led you wrong, bro. Horns offer the most clarity and detail you'll ever hear, this side of planar dipoles and electrostats. Plus, with horns you don't sacrifice macro-dynamics and bass to get that clarity. -JD "me-so-horny" McCall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted September 4, 2002 Share Posted September 4, 2002 With my Cornwalls, I can easily hear a vocalist drawing breaths and even their lips sticking together between syllables - very high resolution, low distortion. Horn bashers should say "unforgiving" which is the derogatory version of "detailed" and "high resolution." Andy This message has been edited by Klipschguy on 09-04-2002 at 07:19 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted September 4, 2002 Share Posted September 4, 2002 Well, first, horns SOUND different. I feel they are more aggressive, and some people (lazy ears) say they are harsh, when they just don'e want to LISTEN to the music. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in a horn system, there is less "stuff" between the diagrah and your ears. Right? Less layers of material. ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! For JBL related subjects and more fun, click: http://www.audioheritage.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted September 4, 2002 Share Posted September 4, 2002 Well, I for one find horns more detailed. I wouldn't be here otherwise. And I totally agree that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. You should listen for yourself. We're not propagandists. Rather we can only say, to quote an old commercial, Try it, you'll like it. I can't agree entirely with my buddy KRB; but it depends on what is meant by "stuff". Essentially, in horn design, there are sophisticated channels which the sound wave travels through. Not so with a direct radiator. There is nothing in between. In the midrange and tweeter design there is a phase plug. The plug is there to ensure that the sound generated by different locations of the diaphragm arrive at the throat (small end of the horn) at the same time. It is, essentially a channel or canal. Then the sound comes out the big end of the horn, (called the mouth). Is this bad? No, not if properly designed. In our own organic systems there are canals too. Our larnyx is connected to our mouth by our throat. Also, sound reaches our microphone, the inner ear, by the horn of our outer ear. I don't think anyone proposes that our speach, or hearing would be better without the organic horns which we carry around. Gil This message has been edited by William F. Gil McDermott on 09-04-2002 at 09:48 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted September 4, 2002 Share Posted September 4, 2002 Gil Good points... I may have to Plagiarize you in my next horn debate. I sometimes wonder if people post questions like this just see if we are awake - just to stir things up or something like that. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arena Posted September 5, 2002 Author Share Posted September 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by j-malotky: I sometimes wonder if people post questions like this just see if we are awake - just to stir things up or something like that. JM nope, i had just returned from my local klipsch dealer where i saw the rf7s in person. i had no idea how massive they were. anyway i was bored so i checked out the rf7 review on audioreview.com and one of the reviewers said: "they project the soundstage well and provide reasonably accurate production of the mid and upper frequencies (though horn loading by nature always smooths out a little of some of the more delicate details)" just wanted to see if it was true. thanks for the info. ------------------ two channel old schooler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spfrss Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 Arena, if you think RF7's are massive you never saw Klipschorns!!! However, horn loaded speakers have a fault, so to say, they're so detailed that are absolutely unforgiving to poorly recorded material and wants (especially Heritage...) top class electronics... Mauro (& '99 KHorns) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorius Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 arena, I have had a pair of LaScala's for about 2 years now, and I was amazed how big RF-7's are when I went to my local dealer, he put in Saving Private Ryan dvd, and all I can say is they are amazing for HT. I just got a pair of '87 Khorns 2 weeks ago and mauro is right they are massive. They are about 53" tall, and 36" wide. They are extremely detailed, I was listening to Michael Kelsey, a local musician/guitarist whose music is a fusion of jazz,rock,classical etc. He has a very percussive style of playing, thumping the top and strings,and I can hear his breathing and fingers on the strings. Regards, Greg ------------------ HK AVR20 II Toshiba DVD 32" Toshiba TV Odyssey Stratos 1987 Khorns Mains 1976 LaScala's Rears KV-1 Center KSW-12 Sub Two-Channel Fisher 800C Receiver 1987 Khorns Teac CDP Pioneer TT This message has been edited by Gregorius on 09-05-2002 at 09:37 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 As PWK would say..."these aren't just loudspeakers, but SOUND REPRODUCERS!!" ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Well I think your getting an earload obviously too. Simple fact is, people are stating the truth here that horns are def both effcient and sound great!! I have a feeling there are pages of physics to prove it too. IMO it takes some "EAR"GONOMICS that you will just have to find out yourself. Just remember it is YOUR ears that matter the most too. Klipsch obviously builds great speakers. Find one you like, and just enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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