Moderators Youthman Posted October 27, 2016 Moderators Share Posted October 27, 2016 First of all, I love the output of the quad RSW-15's and think they look awesome stacked between the LaScalas. I have only heard one IB setup which is wakejunkie's. At the time, he had a pair of FI 18's in an IB Configuration and it absolutely slammed and can dig WAY below what the RSW-15's are capable of. I'm definitely not lacking bass but I wouldn't be in this forum if I wasn't continually looking for ways to improve my system. I'm at the VERY early stages of even considering replacing the RSW-15's. I love how they look and they sound great, I just know that the DIY route will yield lower distortion bass and deeper bass. So I wanted to get some advice on Folded Horn vs IB for my setup and which models you would recommend. My guess is I could sell all 4 of my subs and easily fund a DIY project that would exceed the sound I have now. I considered a pair of Lil Mike's....I believe they are called F10's? It's a folded horn that should be able to fit a pair where the RSW-15's are now. I also have a lot of space above the speakers so the cabinet could be much taller than the top of the screen. I have very little woodworking tools but likely could find someone that has woodworking ability to help me at least cut the pieces for the enclosures. Looking forward to the advice and discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Lil Mike's are the F-20's. You need to find out where your priorities are. Price? Folded horns win. Extension? IB wins. Clarity? About a tie. Use of floor space? IB wins. Ease of construction? IB wins. Resale? Folded horns win. What's most important to you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Best bet will be a fully horn loaded model. Full size THT is the best choice or F-20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel TJ Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I built a Bill Fitzmaurice Tuba Home Theater (THT) sub a couple years ago to go with my La Scalas. I am a very amateur carpenter and I managed to do a decent job with nothing more than a hand-held circular saw (I did have to get a friend with a router to cut the circular driver hole). It is not exactly furniture quality, but it seals up air tight and sounds great. It is very large (36"x36"x30"), but it is an absolute earth mover! If you have the space for one, I definitely recommend it. All in, I spent about $300 on the sub (wood, glue and 15" driver), and another $300 on a powerful SS amp to drive it. If you turn it up all the way, it will shake pictures off the walls! To get the best possible performance out of them, you really should EQ them to your room. This is the one step I have not yet taken, but I am about to. In the next couple of months I will be ordering a USB mic and MiniDSP and begin to EQ the system. I am looking forward to significant improvements. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I'd need to find the specs but I'm not sure how the output of 2 stacked RSW-15's would compare to a single F-20 or THT. Maybe someone with the numbers handy will chime in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Output should not be a huge concern, i would use at least two to minimize room nulls. The horn loaded subs crossing over to the mains is where you will see the biggest improvement, my first impression was shock and awe. Transition is seamless and the new sound will make the mains more of the weak spot in the system unfortunately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 27, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted October 27, 2016 28 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: You need to find out where your priorities are. Price? Folded horns win. Extension? IB wins. Clarity? About a tie. Use of floor space? IB wins. Ease of construction? IB wins. Resale? Folded horns win. What's most important to you? Price: Whatever I can sell (4) RSW-15's which I would think would pay for a pair of Horns or IB subs. Would that be a fair assessment? Extension: My RSW-15's dig to 20Hz and I really love the depth that wakejunkies subs hit....and effortlessly at that Clarity: Definitely don't want muddy bass. Clarity is important Space: Doesn't matter as long as it will fit between the two LaScalas. I'll have to measure to see how much actual space but I believe it's about 36" between the LaScalas. Ease of Construction: As mentioned, I'm pretty unskilled and have simple tools (skill saw, hand saw, cordless drill etc) but I should be able to find someone locally that has the skill and equipment. Resale: Not very important. I think either DIY are harder to sell as you have a limited target group that would be willing to buy a sub that large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 27, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted October 27, 2016 4 minutes ago, jason str said: Transition is seamless and the new sound will make the mains more of the weak spot in the system unfortunately. Curious what you mean by this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 13 minutes ago, Youthman said: Price: Whatever I can sell (4) RSW-15's which I would think would pay for a pair of Horns or IB subs. Would that be a fair assessment? That would definitely be enough for the horns. It might be close on the IB. 13 minutes ago, Youthman said: Extension: My RSW-15's dig to 20Hz and I really love the depth that wakejunkies subs hit....and effortlessly at that Horns won't go lower than your 15's but the IB will give you another octave that you're not getting now. 13 minutes ago, Youthman said: Clarity: Definitely don't want muddy bass. Clarity is important You're good either way. 13 minutes ago, Youthman said: Space: Doesn't matter as long as it will fit between the two LaScalas. I'll have to measure to see how much actual space but I believe it's about 36" between the Lascalas. Horns will fit. The IB will have to go on the floor, wall or ceiling. You comfortable cutting a hole in one of these? 13 minutes ago, Youthman said: Ease of Construction: As mentioned, I'm pretty unskilled and have simple tools (skill saw, hand saw, cordless drill etc) but I should be able to find someone locally that has the skill and equipment. The F-20 isn't a bad one to build. The IB isn't either once you have the concept down. 13 minutes ago, Youthman said: Resale: Not very important. I think either DIY are harder to sell as you have a limited target group that would be willing to buy a sub that large. There is no resale with an IB other than drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 26 minutes ago, Youthman said: Curious what you mean by this. A set of properly built horn loaded subs will show the weakness of the LaScals bass bin sides that in all likeliness are masked by the RSW currently used. Easy fixed by some bracing. Once you hear the combo you will hear exactly what I'm talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 27, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted October 27, 2016 8 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: That would definitely be enough for the horns. It might be close on the IB. Close I can deal with. I just don't want to have to drop $500 to upgrade. 9 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: the IB will give you another octave that you're not getting now. I know....that's part of what was incredible. Where my RSW-15's dropped like a rock, the IB's just kept on going. 10 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: The IB will have to go on the floor, wall or ceiling. You comfortable cutting a hole in one of these? Only hole I could cut would be the ceiling. I'm cool with that. Can always patch it down the road if needed. 10 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: There is no resale with an IB other than drivers. True...since they are basically custom applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 27, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted October 27, 2016 3 minutes ago, jason str said: A set of properly built horn loaded subs will show the weakness of the LaScals bass bin sides that in all likeliness are masked by the RSW currently used. Thanks for the clarification. 3 minutes ago, jason str said: Once you hear the combo you will hear exactly what I'm talking about. I might not....I don't have what I would consider as "critical ears". I know what sounds bad and what sounds good. Unless it's super noticeable, I might not hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 6 minutes ago, Youthman said: Thanks for the clarification. I might not....I don't have what I would consider as "critical ears". I know what sounds bad and what sounds good. Unless it's super noticeable, I might not hear it. The higher the volume the more noticeable it becomes. You don't need critical ears to hear it and the subject had been brought up over and over here on the forum previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 16 minutes ago, Youthman said: Close I can deal with. I just don't want to have to drop $500 to upgrade. 4 drivers for an IB will run around $1100.00. You'll need an amp to push them as well. You can get one that will push those drivers for under 400. If you want EQ in your amp, maybe a little more? I'd have to research the amps a bit but you're looking at $1500 for hardware plus some wood. 2 F-20's plus an amp might run roughly half that? See "what's important to you" above LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 27, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted October 27, 2016 It would be no problem coming up with that amount if I sold the 4 RSW-15's. That would easily pay for 4 IB subs, amp and materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 3 minutes ago, Youthman said: It would be no problem coming up with that amount if I sold the 4 RSW-15's. That would easily pay for 4 IB subs, amp and materials. To me it's a no brainer then. I love the extra extension an IB gives. No transducers needed. Multiple drivers reduces cone movement to keep things clean as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I liked the ideal if an IB if you have space. This is the best of both worlds, good extension and super clean sound. Quite a few of us built subs over the last couple of years and had no real wood working experience. I make a napking holder in elementray school and that was the only experience that I had with making something. You can do and you will know everything about it when you're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 If going the IB route 2 sets of opposing units will be better than one manifold with 4 drivers. Using opposing drivers is a must to cancel the other drivers movement out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 You can build an array but you better brace the hell out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 27, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted October 27, 2016 Wake built his opposing. I would think this would be best method cause they are soooo powerful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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