Frazier vs. Heresy, and the winner is...

[pmsummer]

I contantly feel these Morrilton people totally miss the value of the Frazier designs. These designs are timeless as Klipsch and you'd starve to death in a grocery store if you couldn't make a profit from them.

Dave,

I think the Morrilton folks went belly up, at least that's what the Frazier (JW Davis) site implies.

[ka7niq]

I constantly feel these Morrilton people totally miss the value of the Frazier designs. These designs are timeless as Klipsch and you'd starve to death in a grocery store if you couldn't make a profit from them.

Dave

Agreed!

The little dixielanders should be revived.

A small, efficient speaker that plays loud w/o strain, and sounds good.

I think the secret to these is the paper cone woofer ?

An almost "lost art" these days.

Many have forgotten just how good a well designed Paper cone can sound.

We got Poly shoved down our throats years ago.

Frazier did a PRETTY good job of reducing colorations from their box.

It does have colorations compared to my B&W 801's, and the louder it gets, the worse they are.

True of almost every speaker in my experience, EXCEPT the B&W 801, and very few others.

But, at normal listening levels one hardly notices this is a high efficiency design, except for it's effortlessness, and easy, unforced detail.

[pmsummer]

Darn you guys!

First: SWMBO is out of town on Grandmother duty for a few days,

Second: You remind me that I want a pair of Monte Carlos (which I can sneak into the house easier than some Dixielanders),

Third: A pair of MCs just happens to pop up on the local craigslist right now!

I'm off to pick 'em up. More later.

[ka7niq]

Go get the Fraziers.

I have only heard the Dixielanders, and some other ones that I do not remember the models ?

Both had a non bright sound, my kind of speakers.

I HATE squakiness, brightness, and screech.

I was just listening to my new Dixielanders, they still sound good today.

Colored, yes, in comparasion to my B&W 801's.

But still very musical, they almost beg you to listen to them, a rare quality.

[pmsummer]

They
are sitting on top of the Frazier "Aliens" right now here in my office.
Very nice shape, very nice sound. $40 well spent. My only complaint is
that the logos are missing.

[Mallette]

Jeez, PM, they must have been next door!

I have never heard a box of the same size make better music with less power at low cost than the Monte Carlo. I paid 217.00 for my first pair in 1969 when I could have had a car at the same price. Sheesh, who needs a car when you can have MUSIC!. I still have them, though of the three pair I have they are looking pretty ragged.

I have a pair of Mark V's, 4 Mark IV's, 6 Monte Carlo's and 3 Super Midgets. I am currently on a diet, unless a pair of "Things," "Dixielanders," or "Mark VII's" turns up near and cheap.

I wonder who has inherited the Frazier designs? If I were 20 years younger I'd be all over them. Frazier was in the same class as PWK, and that was straight from PWK's lips to my ears. Having purchased my Frazier's only a year earlier with hard-earned cash after a lot of auditioning, his words were music to my ears.

A belated and heartfelt "THANKS" to Jack Frazier for bringing real quality to poor people. Even Heresies where WAY out of my reach back then, and only Jack Frazier had something I could afford that delivered 50-15kHz, 1w1m96db and pure listening delight.

Dave

[ka7niq]

They are sitting on top of the Frazier "Aliens" right now here in my office. Very nice shape, very nice sound. $40 well spent. My only complaint is that the logos are missing.

Like the old sansui receiver, and Scott tube amp!

Those fraziers I am un familiar with.

Seems like an attempt to get good polar coverage with the 4 arrayed horns ?

They look like piezo's ?

Contrary to what common audiophiles will tell you,, I have heard GOOD Piezo's, really good ones too!

Back when I lived in Seattle, a guy llocally used to build Horn Speakers.

He would measure 10 Motorola Piezo's to get a good one, and knew what he was dojing crossover wide.

Then, he would actually go into the Piezo itself, and shaved it I think ?

The highs from his finished products were sweet, effortless, and breathtaking.

[ka7niq]

Jeez, PM, they must have been next door!

I have never heard a box of the same size make better music with less power at low cost than the Monte Carlo. I paid 217.00 for my first pair in 1969 when I could have had a car at the same price. Sheesh, who needs a car when you can have MUSIC!. I still have them, though of the three pair I have they are looking pretty ragged.

I have a pair of Mark V's, 4 Mark IV's, 6 Monte Carlo's and 3 Super Midgets. I am currently on a diet, unless a pair of "Things," "Dixielanders," or "Mark VII's" turns up near and cheap.

I wonder who has inherited the Frazier designs? If I were 20 years younger I'd be all over them. Frazier was in the same class as PWK, and that was straight from PWK's lips to my ears. Having purchased my Frazier's only a year earlier with hard-earned cash after a lot of auditioning, his words were music to my ears.

A belated and heartfelt "THANKS" to Jack Frazier for bringing real quality to poor people. Even Heresies where WAY out of my reach back then, and only Jack Frazier had something I could afford that delivered 50-15kHz, 1w1m96db and pure listening delight.

Dave

I think many are beginning to wake up, and are snapping up some of the older Frazier designs.

I met PWK back at the Detroit Audio Show at Cobo Hall in Detroit.

It was back in 1970, I was 15 at the time.

He was a kind, patient man, pleased that I was interested in Ham Radio and Audio.

He wore a big button that said only "BULLSHIT".

I also met Bob Carver at that show, he was showing the Phase Linear Andromeda speakers.

Onkyo was there too, and impressed me with their love of music.

Technics was showing off their excellent "Linear Phase" speakrs, looked like pregnant Kangaroos, but imaged like Dahlquists, and sounded similar too.

[pmsummer]

Jeez, PM, they must have been next door!

I have never heard a box of the same size make better music with less power at low cost than the Monte Carlo.

Dave

Dave,

You are right, these little things are amazing! I can't help but think what great monitor speakers these would make.

[Mallette]

What I meant was it only seemed a few hours between your saying you'd seen them on Ebay and having at your house...

Did anyone other than Frazier employ the modified Helmholtz resonator principle? It is so simple and, for whatever reasons, seems much more satisfying and efficient than ducted ports and much superior to sealed.

When I look at Jack's designs I cannot fathom why his stuff sounded so much better than everyone else given he was working with the same stuff. Just a little workshop on Walnut Hill Lane in Dallas and he utterly trounced huge companies with unlimited resources.

He certainly enriched my life for the 30 years I could not afford Klipsch, and continues to provide me with a top of the line system anywhere I want one. Currently, I run three outside my music room...one in the downstairs family room, a 5X HT in the family TV area, and one in the master bedroom...and I still have a closet full of them! Plus, the whole collection was less than 500.00. What a deal, and a long way from having to decide whether to have a car (and love life) as opposed to a single pair of Monte Carlos!

Life is GOOD in the 21rst century!

Dave

[pmsummer]

What I meant was it only seemed a few hours between your saying you'd seen them on Ebay and having at your house...

Dave,

they were on DFW craigslist, not ebay. I saw them about 15

minutes after the seller posted them. He was in old town Irving, and so

I hopped in the car and grabbed 'em up. An hour and a half from the

time he posted 'em until they were in my car. He got them from Crabtree

Electronics (a blast from the past) sometime in the sixties.

Craigslist

has been good to me, because I only shop locally, no shipping expenses

OR damage, and I can actually see the item BEFORE cash changes

hands. Not QUITE as great a deal as my $300 Cornwalls, but then

again...

I think one could call the Cornwall a Helmholtz

resonator design, and my son-in-law's rare Heresy Industrial Porteds as

well (essentially a 1/4 scale Cornwall).

[Mallette]

So are they staying where they are or are you going to put in a second system? May not be your cup of tea, but they'd make superb rears with a DynaQuad passive ambience recovery circuit.

Those would be the original Monte Carlo. A little later they made the "Super Monte Carlo" with a piezo tweeter. Much better sound...if you are a cat! :-) Actually, a little more robust. I fried a couple of tweeters along the way in my standards, but never in a Super.

Dave

[ka7niq]

My old Cornwalls had good bass.

I woulld call the two pairs of Klipschorns I have owned, and the Belle's some kind of resonators.

Lower midrange resonators, to be exact.

I can hear the colorations in these designs, NOT that the Fraziers don't have them either.

I just seem better able to ignore them in the Fraziers.

Maybe because I don't expect as much from them, I don;t know ?

BTW, what is a Frazier Monte Carlo ?

Can you post a picture of it ?

Is it a Horn type speaker like my Frazier Dixielanders ?

Hey, I just googled one http://members.aol.com/KDresch/frazier.html

It is a canventional speaker.

I have found that speakers like this using a large diameter tweeter can have a VERY good midrange.

This is because a large diameter tweeter makes a simple crossover possible due to the large tweeters ability to play down low.

However, extreme highs are compromised, as is dispersion.

But, if you place the tweeters at ear level, and aim em right at ya, it can be fun.

[pmsummer]

BTW, what is a Frazier Monte Carlo ?

Can you post a picture of it ?

The Monte Carlo is a true "bookshelf" speaker. It is the one under the Sansui tuner, and on top of the "Alien".

You can see the resonator slots on the back. As you can see them in this shot, the "Alien" has slots running down both sides of it, near the back.

[JohnA]

The Fraziers we have in our church are not at all impressive.

[pmsummer]

The Fraziers we have in our church are not at all impressive.

Are they new-ish?

[ka7niq]

The Fraziers we have in our church are not at all impressive.

How do I say this w.o coming off as mean John ?

But the speakers you show as owning,,the LaScala's and Heresy's, are two of the brightest speakers I have ever heard.

Personally, I thought the LaScal's were among the worst speakers I have ever heard, one big midrange screech machine.

The Heresys are just plain bright to my ears, not as midrange screechy as La Screecha;s, just bright.

Then, the Acurus stuff I have owned was hard and bright sounding too.

People can sometimes get used to a particular sound, and perhaps you are accustomed to what I consider a bright, screechy, midrangy sound.

Not that you are wrong, and I am right, but people all hear differently, and listen to and for different things.

I have owned lots of Klipsch speakers, and kept few of them.

I liked The Old CF 4 version 1's, as long as tone controls were handy, and liked the OLD Forte's.

My Cornwwalls were in need of tweeters and caps, so I will reserve judgement on them.

I HAVE heard Heresy's with tubes sound OK.

The Fraziers I now own, the Dixielanders, are a total departure from the Klipsch sound.

I can see why you would find them unimpressive.

They are balanced, laid back, and warm, not in yer face midrangy with hyperdetail.

What sound is right ?

Why,, the one you own, of course.

Some like steak rare, I want mine cooked.

Some like blondes, some like brunettes ?

Some EVEN like George W Bush ??? [:^)]

[pmsummer]

The Fraziers we have in our church are not at all impressive.

Are they new-ish?

The

reason I ask is because the CURRENT Frazier company is a division of

long-time commercial/industrial speaker maker JW Davis. I have never

seen or heard a JW Davis-made speaker that wasn't little more than just a

driver in a box. I wouldn't expect to be impressed by a "Frazier" that

came from them.

If the speaker is more than 20 years old, then I'd be surprised if the problem wasn't with the input/application.

http://www.frazierspeakers.com/frazier.htm

[Mallette]

Took the words right outta my mouth, PM. There is Fraziers and fraziers. The current heirs and assigns drool...

Dave

[Scott Frazier]

Greetings!

So... I bought this house in Seattle and found these speakers built into the built into the 1960's era 16 MM movie theatre, complete with movie library and a few other Frazier speakers and turntables and a HUGE volume of records. I had no idea what they were until I located this thread here in the Klipsch forum. Dixielanders!

I missed the chance to corral the Mac 4100 that drove the system for 30 years so I am currently ressurecting some old HH Scott tube tuner/tube amp equipment that was buried in the closets. The speakers work fine but I haven't settled into a good system to drive them yet. They don't need much power, the movie projector runs them without any help at all.

I will post more as I get time to listen to them a bit more...