Mallette Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 FRAZIER!!! Well, in my application, anyway. I replaced my rear Fraziers with Ron's Heresies and have been listening for several days. The Fraziers are significantly more efficient and seamless. The Heresies are seamless, but the level is just too low. Bear in mind I am using gainless DynaQuad for my rears, so efficiency matching counts. OTOH, I can now have something in the rear whilst my Fraziers are reconed. I was looking through my old Frazier literature the other day a have decided the present heirs to Jack Fraziers designs would starve to death in a grocery store. They are fabulous, and would provide Klipsch with serious competition. The Eleven produced 107db/watt/meter! 250 lbs. How? Beats me, but I believe it. Only horns in the things were tweeters, so the horn hating crowd (yeah, who cares) would have something to chew on that is efficient. I suspect he used the modified Helmholtz resonator design that makes the Monte Carlos so efficient. They had a full range from the 11 mentioned above down to the Super Midget that PWK used with a handle to demonstrate corner reenforcement properties (Heresy being a bit much to hold up with one hand!). Heck, if I had the capitol I'd buy the consumer designs from them and get into it myself. No way you could lose. If the rest of the line sounded incrementally bigger and better than my MC's, you wouldn't be able to build them fast enough. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 Too bad Frazier consumer died. I did like my Mark Vs and Sevens. Loved the Black Walnut finish when oiled and they would crank pretty well. Not high tech but did the job. Peter Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 17, 2002 Author Share Posted September 17, 2002 ...and our K'horns are "high tech?" I never heard any of the line above the Monte Carlos, and that was most of it. I base my judgements about JF's designs based entirely on my 25 years experience with these little MC's. Until the 'horns, I'd never heard anything substantially better. I can only imagine what the "Thing" or the Elevens might have sounded like. My local audio store in Texarkana only carried the MC's. The 7's were out of my price range at the time, and most of us East Texas hicks. Even the MC's at 100.00 bucks each took at lot of thought and scrimping at 1.10 an hour...but that's the young audiophile. I was 22 before I ever bought a car!!! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 Dave Why compare them to the Heresy. Why not something with more bass. Maybe like a Forte or Chorus or LAS. Just curious. I am not familuar with these speakers, post pics if you can, sounds interesting. JM ------------------ HT / Listening Environment: Mains: '83 Khorns All Heritage Center: K77, K400 above screen, Dual K22 in Heresy cabinets under screen. Sides: Forte 1 Subs: Dual SVS Ultra + Screen: 65"x120" DaLite Grey Projector: Sharp PG-M20X Processor: Lexicon MC-1 2 Ch Preamp: McIntosh C-36 Many NAD mono amps (for now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 Piezo electric tweeters, full range 4" midranges, and big heavy woofers (AlNico V). Interesting configurations by today's standards. They even implemented what I would have thought was a series crossover back then. Found it odd when I rebuilt my Vs. Tanking 30 to 50 watts RMS was it. A friend had the Dixielanders which were a very small fully horn loaded speaker. Probably kept up with a La Scala at half its size. The "Things and Elevens" were in the local Discos along with Klipsch and Altec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 Long time no see/ welcome back PeterZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 18, 2002 Author Share Posted September 18, 2002 To be honest with you, I've not taken the time to figure out how to post images and HTML here. I've the entire 1969 Frazier product brochure. Most just look like boxes, with the striking exception of the Eleven. Very beautiful and most have been quite expensive. The MC's are simple 8" W-Mid and piezo tweeter. The "secret" is the the "modified Helmholtz resonator" design of the cabinet that makes them extremely efficient. Far more than acoustic suspension and significantly more so than ducted port. As to the sound, the Monte Carlo's are like Klipsch in their accuracy and musicality. I really would not compare the MC's and Heresies side by side-Heresy would blow them out of the water maximum output wise. I am a bit a a loss as to why the MC's are putting out more as they are, at least on paper, 3 db less efficient than Heresy. However, the ears are telling me otherwise. Peter: What the the Eleven and Thing sound like? Since I live in Dallas I've put the notorius Ron on the lookout for anything Frazier...should still be some about. Ahh...Dixielander. Don't recall them even being brought up on the list before. A rare bird, indeed. Don't know why PWK stopped making them...they'd be wounderful as rears and for limited space apps. PWK told me himself just how much he respected Jack Frazier, and Mr. K was not much on discussing other speakers. It is my firm belief that the Frazier designs would sell well in todays market with just a few driver changes. There are really no non-horn loaded speakers of which I am aware that could compete with them in terms of either efficiency, listenability, or price...very much like Klipsch. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 18, 2002 Author Share Posted September 18, 2002 See http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1382103769 These are the same as mine...though look nicer. I may bid on them myself if the price doesn't jump too high. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
av8tor Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 Ahh......Frazier, I remember in the first Jr.High dance, the local stereo shop guy was spinning records in the auditorium and had 2 Fraziers on stands. Mostly cube shaped but the center of the cube on the speaker side only showed a pyramid shape, jetting outward. How's that for a description??? Anywho, I am using a Frazier sub that was used in a local bar from years ago. The woofer measures 13" and at each end of the rectangle are the vents. Never knew the model number but have finished the "dull gray" color with black formica. Probably should have the cone re-coned but not sure if the parameters will be kept in check. It's being driven by an NAD 2100 amp, bridged mono. Keeps up nicely with the La Scalas. Nice to hear of others that appreciated Fraziers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 This jpg referenced is quite odd. Looks very similar to my friends Frazier Dixielanders of the '70s though it as made by Frasier-May and called a Dixielander. The Frazier had a larger mid/treble horn. http://www.audioheritage.org/images/misc/fm/101-0132_IMG.JPG http://www.audioheritage.org/html/history/jbl-70's/legacy.htm Would be interesting to find out how they compare to Klipsch horn systems of today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 19, 2002 Author Share Posted September 19, 2002 I think they would compare very favorable. Certainly my little Monte Carlos hold up nicely and blend beautifully with them big ol' horns in the front. I thought that Klipsch made a small all-horn system for a short period way back called the Dixielander as well that was eventually replaced by Heresy. The Frazier shown is one of their professional line, which is still being made by an outfit in Morrilton, AR. I don't know how much of Jack's original design is left in the line. Given that the present owners are ignoring the wealth of his consumer line, I've my doubts. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 I was wondering what the tie was between JBL and Frazier and this is it: "The principle of slot loaded enclosures had been pioneered by Ed May, JBL's head of Product Development. Before joining JBL in 1959, Ed had been partners with Jack Frazier in the Frazier May loudspeaker company and they had introduced this concept in the mid fifties. " courtesy of http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/aquarius.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 19, 2002 Author Share Posted September 19, 2002 ...so after a few emails back and forth the guy with the Monte Carlos is going to pull them from Ebay! He also said he'd heard K'horns once and loved them, but couldn't afford them. I have him looking in the appropriate places now and he stands corrected. Another horn head is born, this time thanks to Frazier. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 I'm possibly buying a new house and I might be back in the market for K-horns also. I hated parting with my last set but they didn't work in my current house. Hope I can find a deal like I got last time - $900 for a pair of pristine late 70's but somehow I doubt it!!!!!!!! Peter Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J M O N Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 You never know. You might get lucky like I did: $500 for a very nice pair of 1978's in walnut oil. Peter Z., I think you're the person I bought my La Scalas from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 This jpg referenced is quite odd. Looks very similar to my friends Frazier Dixielanders of the '70s though it as made by Frasier-May and called a Dixielander. The Frazier had a larger mid/treble horn. http://www.audioheritage.org/images/misc/fm/101-0132_IMG.JPG http://www.audioheritage.org/html/history/jbl-70's/legacy.htm Would be interesting to find out how they compare to Klipsch horn systems of today. I just bought 4 Frazier Dixielanders, only have 2 in house right now, going back tomorrow for the rest/ Listened for 3 hours toninght, and in a word, incredible. These are seriously good speakers, w/o the squak, colorations, and harshness I have had from several pairs of Klipsch speakers I have owned. Like I said, I listened for 3 hours, something I find it hard to do with most Klipsch speakers I have owned. Oh, and I have owned 3 pairs of Klipschorns, Belles, Cornwalls, La Screecha's. Best Klipsch speakers I have owned were Original Fortes, and CF 4 version 1's. The Forte's had great bass, great detail, but just a BIT too much :on edge" for me. Maybe tubes would have cured it ? The CF 4's were wonderful, IF you used tone controls, I don't like to, so they had to go too. The Frazier Dixielanders ? They are MUSICAL, sweet, warm, almost Wurlitizer, with that rich, warm, sound, rolled off in highs a bit, fat, tight bass, what little there is. They ROCK too, for little guys. I can't WAIT to get inside em, and restore them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 ka7niq, Please post some pictures. I would love to get my hands on a pair just for the fun of it. I have been tinkering with the idea of building myself a set of bass horns using the same design and BEC's 15". I used the Frazier 12" (modified Frazier V) in a similar horn in the 70's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmsummer Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 There's a pair of Dixielanders on ebay right now, but the price is a little high and they are too far away (1700 miles). I'm running a pair of industrial Fraziers that I only know as the F-12-4-h (Frazier, 12" bass driver, 4 horns arrayed radially around the 2' x 2' x 14" black box). And they really sound GREAT with my little Scott 299-D driving them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted May 21, 2007 Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 Yep, all my mouthing a few years back probably helped the Fraziers inflate significantly. It is getting rarer to hear someone selling "some great sounding speakers made by somebody called Frazier in Dallas..." I have pretty good inventory, but no Dixielanders. I contantly feel these Morrilton people totally miss the value of the Frazier designs. These designs are timeless as Klipsch and you'd starve to death in a grocery store if you couldn't make a profit from them. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 Yep, all my mouthing a few years back probably helped the Fraziers inflate significantly. It is getting rarer to hear someone selling "some great sounding speakers made by somebody called Frazier in Dallas..." I have pretty good inventory, but no Dixielanders. I contantly feel these Morrilton people totally miss the value of the Frazier designs. These designs are timeless as Klipsch and you'd starve to death in a grocery store if you couldn't make a profit from them. Dave Well, I am impressed with the little Dixielanders. ALL speakers do somethings wrong, and these are no exception. But, at least these do not screech at you like many Klipsch designs I have owned do. I have also owned some quite good Klipsch designs too, but every Klipsch speaker I have ever heard was voiced a bit bright or aggressive, for my tastes at least. The little Dixielander's "Sins", or deviations from perfection, do not drive me up a wall.. My 2 pairs came out of a Movie Theatre in Cleveland, Ohio. They still have the hooks in them to suspend them from behind the screen. So, you KNOW they are really good, LOL After all, thousands of people paid good money over 20 years time to hear them. Hey,,just kidding, of course, but they are fun to listen to. They make me want to listen to them, and I will get into them, and see what needs updating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.