jweeda Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Being a Chorus II owner and wanting to upgrade to the ultimate speaker system -Khorn; I was wondering if anyone has pics of the rear of a khorn. Also wondering if someone could briefly explain what goes on inside the bass cabinet, where the sound exits.THANKS. ------------------ JW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 I just LOVE these kinds of questions...LOL! OK, here goes: The k-horn is basically divided into two sections: The upper section, which houses the tweeter and the midrange, each is a horn firing to the front; and the lower section, which is the folded horn woofer section or the "bass bin". The bass bin works this way: Behind that big front panel there is a space, then you will find another panel that has a slot in it, and behind that panel you will find a 15" woofer firing forward through that slot. Once the sound goes through that slot, firing forward, it hits a horizontally mounted piece of wood in that space, called a "splitter"...at that point the pathway of the sound is divided into TWO pathways(bifurcated pathway). One pathway goes upward in that space and the other goes downward...and they are bounded on each side by pieces of wood that are the "sides" of the horn in its first portion of the path. Just picture a horn firing upwards and another firing downwards. Each horn is a mirror image of the other horn. When the sound gets to the top of the bass bin, it takes a hard turn towards the REAR...in other words toward the corner of the room...the same thing happens to the sound that was going downwards...it also makes a hard turn toward the rear of the speaker(the corner of the room) As these two sound paths head towards the corner of the room, they continue to be bounded by the top of the speaker, and the bottom of the speaker, but they also are still in a horn...the flare of the horn for the UPPER path is downward towards the rear of the speaker(corner of the room), while the flare of the horn for the LOWER path is upwards. Both of these paths meet each other again before the sound gets completely to the back of the speaker(corner of the room)and, just before they arrive at the corner of the room, they hit the tailpiece of the cabinet, which makes them reflect towards each side, where they can escape through openings on each side of the very rear of the speaker cabinet, and follow the walls of the room FORWARD on EACH SIDE of the cabinet towards the MIDDLE of the room...in other words... the path goes forward, first, then splits and goes up and down, then turns and goes towards the rear, and again turns and comes forward around each side...of the bass bin....with the sound on each side of the bass bin using the wall out of that corner as the final flare of the bass horn. The other three sides of the final section of that horn are the side of the bass bin, the upper panel of the bass bin(that goes all the way to the wall on each side of the bass bin, and the floor itself. One of the reasons I do NOT like to hear a k-horn in a carpeted corner is because that carpeted floor there is actually one side of the final length of the horn, and it adversely affects the sound!! Would you glue a piece of carpet to the bottom inside section of the midrange horn? I think NOT!! LOL! Confusing, huh? But it works just fine!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 09-19-2002 at 07:52 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 To follow up on Builder. There are four elements to the bass system. One is the box behind the driver. It is close to a pyramid in geometry. Essentially a sealed box like in in an accoustic suspension system, like the Heresy. The second is the driver. It's back end is sitting in the box. The third is the folded horn which Builder describes. He describes the path(s). It is important to realise that the path forms an exponential horn. As one progresses down the path from the driver to the two openings at the sides, the total cross sectional area doubles every 18 inches. (I think that is the correct number.) The last part of this is formed by the wall into which the K-Horn sits. A good seal against the wall is beneficial. The fourth is the corner of the room itself. Consider it to be defined by the vertical line intersection of the walls up to the ceiling, and the intersection of the floor with the walls. Consider that it acts as an extension of the horn. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jweeda Posted September 19, 2002 Author Share Posted September 19, 2002 OK Gil and HDBRbuider, is the bass bin setup that Paul Klipsch designed achieving the same or similar results to what many bands are trying to achieve in the long throw (huge) bass bottoms they use. Some of the cabinets I've seen at concerts are extremely large weighing hundreds of pounds. Others have responded to a previous note I sent saying that even with Khorns, I'd need a heavy duty sub. Wouldn't and shouldn't the Khorn bass bin itself deliver the firepower and impact I desire by itself. I'd be powering it with ADCOM GFA555, 200 watts a side. ------------------ JW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Hi, HDBR and Gil...guess I hang out in 2 Channel too much. Haven't heard from you guys in a while. Two questions related to this thread. 1. My 'horns are on carpet. Would simply putting a piece of plywood under them take care of the carpet issue? and 2. I'd heard sealing to the wall with weather stripping was a good thing. But what part? Doesn't seem like sealing the upport horn section would do anything, but that's the only point of contact. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer9911 Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 JW, I can't impact on what Will and HDBR stated(thanx guys, time to cut some carpet, told her I wanted hardwood), but I did run my Khorns off Adcoms GFA-585 LE and GTP500II in 2 channel, the 555 is plenty. I loved the power my horns displayed. I will say that using a sub with Khorns does add on "some" music(using a Velodyne FSR-18 in my HT), but it seems to take away from the horns flatness\eveness, like having a boom box in the back of a hatchback effect. Now where's meee utility knife eh..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Dave The plywood under the Khorn will work, but remember that you should not just have the wood under the Khorn, but extending to the sides where the bass horn is the corner of the room. My '83 Khorns have a rubberish strip on each side of the rear board that forms a good seal like weather stripping. I bielieve it is stock from Klipsch. Only the bass bin needs the tight seal not the top. HDBR makes a great point about the carpet. I am planning on building false corners evan though I am already in a natural corner. My bottom is going to be a hard surface under the whole horn opening. JW - I do not use a sub when I am listening to music. The Khorn is a very full frequency speaker. I guess it would add something if all you listen to is dance music or Techno. OK - I admit, Techno does sound pretty cool running through my MC-1 in Logic 7 mode. Other than that, it is strictly 2 ch for listening. JM ------------------ HT / Listening Environment: Mains: '83 Khorns All Heritage Center: K77, K400 above screen, Dual K22 in Heresy cabinets under screen. Sides: Forte 1 Subs: Dual SVS Ultra + Screen: 65"x120" DaLite Grey Projector: Sharp PG-M20X Processor: Lexicon MC-1 2 Ch Preamp: McIntosh C-36 Many NAD mono amps (for now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 Maybe I need to explain tha last portion of the bass bin horn flange more clearly. Where the pathway exits the slots on either side of the bass bin, it becomes two horns again, one on either side of the horn and it follows: 1. The outside SIDES of the bass bin(which become one "side" of a horn mouth... 2. The top panel of the bass bin, which becomes the top panel of the horn lens... 3. The wall out from the corner, which becomes another "side" of the horn lens... 4. And the floor, which becomes the "bottom" of the horn lens. This last portion of the horn lens is ALSO flared...(I think it is 30 degrees, or something like that)..between the sides of the bass bin and the walls...this is the final horn flare. I have read on this forum where some of the members take their k-horns in the corners and toe them in or out some...this NEGATIVELY affects the final part of the intended horn lens!! That is why the hard surface of the floor in the corner needs to extend all the way to the walls on either side of the bass bin...so that it makes the final portion of the horn SOLID. As for sealing...the tailpiece needs to make a sealed contact with the corner of the room...and it isn't a bad idea to have the upper panel do the same...making a sealed contact with the walls...this helps to "close up" the angles of the FINAL horn flare. I have also made a point in other threads of removing the "gliders" from the bottom of the bass bin when setting it into the corner on a wooden floor, and using something like a thin piece of weatherstripping just inside its perimeter on the bottom to provide a better seal there. Maybe this thread will clear up my intent some. It was all about sealing the "joints" of the final flare of the bass bin horn along its "seams" so that it performs better!! One of the reasons PWK's OWN k-horns in his living room were in false corners was the WAF factor...by using false corners with a solid bottom to the corners, he could still have them on a carpeted floor...the other reason is that he could move them closer together out of the room corners. ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 09-20-2002 at 09:37 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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