Center Channel Advice Needed

[stevoc921]

Hey guys, need some advice. I currently have an R-25C and a pair of R-28F as well as a pair R-14s. The R-28F sound fantastic, but I'm looking for a little more than the R-25C can give, but I got a really good deal on it ($100) and it blew my previous center out of the water and into outer space. I'm contemplating getting the RC-64 ii, but I don't want to "mismatch" it with my R-28F. I currently have a Yamaha RX-V675, and will be upgrading to the Yamaha RX-A3060 soon. Thoughts? 

[Lipoly]

Hey all, I was going to post a very similar question, but since this question is so close to what I was going to ask, I thought I'd just reply with my additional information and hopefully piggyback on any answers.

My setup:

R-25C :  http://www.klipsch.com/products/klipsch-reference-center-channel-speakers#r-25c

2x R-28F : http://www.klipsch.com/products/reference-floorstanding-speakers#r-28f

1x R-12SW : http://www.klipsch.com/products/reference-subwoofers#r-12sw

2x R-15M : http://www.klipsch.com/products/reference-bookshelf-speakers#r-15m

Onkyo TX-NR656 : https://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR656-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B01D86TLES/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1494036700&sr=1-1&keywords=onkyo+tx-nr656

The biggest things I'd like to know is does everything reasonably match with timbre, power, etc.  After getting home from BestBuy and doing more research I now have doubts about the center.  Like stevoc, I'd also like to know if the RC-62/64 II models are properly matched with the rest of my components, or any other thoughts you may have about my setup.

As an aside...is there a guide somewhere that lists what is matched?  How do people know?

Thanks!

 

Edited May 6, 2017 by Lipoly

[The History Kid]

@Lipoly

Your gear is all timbre matched - the Best Buy line goes with the Best Buy line.  No questions there.

 

The RC line is a cut above your speakers.  The Reference line you're referring to there is not the same as the "Reference" line you bought at Best Buy (those are glorified Icons that are identical in everything but color).

 

Line matches with line, the closer you can match the drivers the better.  The ideal setup is the same speaker in all speaker positions, i.e. 7 R-28F's, or 5 RP-280F's, etc.  At the minimum usually LCR (the front three) being identical is what is pretty much standard, but the problem is most people don't have the room for that.

 

If you're satisfied with what you have, go with it.  It's all matched.

 

@stevoc921 - The RC-64 will outperform your Best Buy gear.  You may have to tone it down and trim up your mains if you go that route.  The speaker that was designed for your setup is the R-25C.  I've seen people using the 250C and the 4x0C speakers, but I'm not sure how a critical ear would hear them.  I hated it when I had the RC-52 mixed in with my RF-3's.  Should you go with the RC-64 - be prepared to upgrade your R-28F's as well to something more appropriate such as the RF-62 or RP-260F (82 and 280F respectively as well).

[chasec2021]

The RC 64 ii would be way too much for the Best Buy line to keep up with IMO. I'm sure you could tone back the center so it doesn't overpower the Best Buy line, but then again.. you would be spending a lot of money to handcuff the most important speaker in your set up. I have the 62 ii and i love it. Im sure you cant go wrong getting the 64 ii.. I know I am glad I went with the Ref iis over Ref premiers when it was time to upgrade. I feel the savings alone was worth not going all the way to premeirs. Plus I read that a lot of people preferred ref iis over premiers anyway.

[Lipoly]

9 hours ago, The History Kid said:

@Lipoly

The Reference line you're referring to there is not the same as the "Reference" line you bought at Best Buy (those are glorified Icons that are identical in everything but color).

 

 

Are you saying that the speakers I got from Best Buy are not the same as the ones I linked to, even though they have the same model numbers, and SRP $?

Ex:
BestBuy R-28F : http://www.bestbuy.com/site/klipsch-reference-dual-8-floorstanding-speaker-each-black/6228118.p?skuId=6228118
Klipsch R-28F: http://www.klipsch.com/products/reference-floorstanding-speakers#r-28f

Those are not the same?

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[The History Kid]

@Lipoly - no.  The Reference Line at Best Buy (that is - the "R" series of speakers) are all glorified Icons.  Klipsch changed the name of the Icons to Reference a few years back, and changed the name of Reference to Reference Premier (RP).  It's created a lot of confusion.  You're not getting the true sound of the Reference line, you're getting Icon sound.  That's still pretty decent, but it's not what the Reference line up to the rename was known for.

 

Generally speaking, it seems that the old Reference (Gen I thru VI and RF II) speakers outperform the Reference Premier line in some ways.  I've always been partial to the first generation gear - as many here know. 

 

The bottom line is that of the speakers you mentioned - they will all trample your other speakers, because they're built of a different cut of quality, and different parts.  

[RoboKlipsch]

Try turning up the r25c and see if it gets the job done.  I had the r25c and switched to a rp250c and was much happier.  Setup is most likely why its not cutting it.  Buy another center... when calibrated it may it may not wow you.  Try to improve what u have first.  R64 is another level once u go there u need new fronts.

[Lipoly]

Thanks a lot, everyone.  FWIW: This is for a small/med basement with a low ceiling that is fully enclosed except for the stairs leading down.  

 

For comparison, my setup in my "main" living room is:

4x (with stands): http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340m/cmt340m.html
1x: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340c/cmt340c.html
1x: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/subs/fv15hp.html

Yamaha Aventage RX-A820

 

I've had that about 4 years and have been pretty happy w/it.

 

Quote

I had the r25c and switched to a rp250c and was much happier.  Setup is most likely why its not cutting it.  Buy another center... when calibrated it may it may not wow you. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks,  last night I went through about the first 15/20 pages of posts here and have seen some w/you in it referring to the rp250c and it certainly got me thinking.  Is it well matched with the other speakers I got if I decide to keep 'em?

I did compare the Klipsch speakers I got inside BB and they sounded better than the "midrange" polk ones they had, and a whole lot better than the low-end Polk ones.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Lipoly
fixed links

[The History Kid]

Just keep in mind that it's a slippery slope when you start upgrading pieces outside of lines that are a step above.  You might start with a center but then you might upgrade your mains, and then reupgrade the center, then the surrounds and sub.  I'd keep what you have unless you're ready to start phasing all the pieces out.

[Lipoly]

2 minutes ago, The History Kid said:

Just keep in mind that it's a slippery slope when you start upgrading pieces outside of lines that are a step above.  You might start with a center but then you might upgrade your mains, and then reupgrade the center, then the surrounds and sub.  I'd keep what you have unless you're ready to start phasing all the pieces out.

 

 

That is so true.  Home theater systems are especially bad for me regarding that b/c I enjoy them so much, I am already spending a "lot" of money, and I'm hoping to keep them for a long time...so there is always "well, if I pay just a bit more..." type stuff constantly going on.  This time I was especially naive when I picked them up b/c it was done with little more than amazon review type research beforehand.

[wvu80]

There is some really good advice going on around here ^^^.  The History Kid seems right on top of everything ( I like the new moniker, btw)

+++

 

For the record I am a believer in getting the absolute best center speaker you can find whether it "timbre matches" or not.  The reason for this is that most movies and TV the audio content is made up 90% of dialog, and dialog come out of the center speaker 90% of the time.  I want a crystal clear center for male and female voices.

 

Others may have a differing opinion from mine on this, and that's fine.  That is just my philosophy, building good sound from the inside out.

[Lipoly]

1 hour ago, wvu80 said:

...most movies and TV the audio content is made up 90% of dialog, and dialog come out of the center speaker 90% of the time.  I want a crystal clear center for male and female voices.

 

 

 

Thanks, although I think most people are aware, it is helpful to remind yourself of important points like that when you have so many other thoughts/concerns floating around in your head

 

That being said, I am leaning toward returning the R-25C for an RP-250c and keeping my R-28F L/R speakers.  Would that be a reasonably compatible swap?

Edited May 6, 2017 by Lipoly

[Ceptorman]

On 5/3/2017 at 10:06 AM, stevoc921 said:

Hey guys, need some advice. I currently have an R-25C and a pair of R-28F as well as a pair R-14s. The R-28F sound fantastic, but I'm looking for a little more than the R-25C can give, but I got a really good deal on it ($100) and it blew my previous center out of the water and into outer space. I'm contemplating getting the RC-64 ii, but I don't want to "mismatch" it with my R-28F. I currently have a Yamaha RX-V675, and will be upgrading to the Yamaha RX-A3060 soon. Thoughts? 

Get the RC- 64ll.....thank me later.

[Scrappydue]

15 hours ago, Ceptorman said:

Get the RC- 64ll.....thank me later.

Sure if he decides to eventually upgrade all his other speakers too. Otherwise the 64ii wouldn't be worth the money. 62ii would be a better buy imo if your not gonna get the 7ii's down the road. 

[Lipoly]

So, I compared the R-25C with my current setup's center from my main living room (http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340c/cmt340c.html).  I disconnected all other speakers and ran it in 7ch "Music" mode to send roughly "full" output to the center. I used standard surround decoding during movies.  I had ranged the volume from soft to pretty much cranking it.

• I tried both with some music (Mastodon and Hozier), and then the opening scene from Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring which has some incredibly deep bass (blast after Sauron is taken down), and incredibly screechy highs (Orcs howling), along with the narration of Galadriel's smooth voice (I played it on BR disc, but this is this scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhjDnrw34QA).
• I found the Ascend to be noticeably bassier (it has bigger woofers) and perhaps a bit "fuller" sounding (not sure how to describe it...it gave off more of a non-directional sound...the sound seemed to "fill the room" more, even at lower volumes).
• The R-25Cs were louder at the same volume, which made it harder to compare apples/apples.

I think the R-25c did very well in the movie the movie test, although I preferred the Ascend overall in music.

 

One strange thing I've noticed.  I was testing on an Xbox One, and the sound it plays when navigating the menu has some harsh frequency which always sounds horrible on nearly every speaker I've tried it on...it rattles the built-in speakers of all of my TVs, a soundbar I have, and it does as well on the R-25c, but surprisingly is much less noticeable on the Ascend (but is still there).  Just a small thing I noticed.

Bottom line, I think the R-25c is a fairly solid performer and I might end up keeping it...I do wish I'd gotten it for less than MSRP to make me feel a bit better about the purchase.  I need to test the rest of the speakers though, but I'm hoping they all work out b/c I'm not looking forward to re-packaging/returning them...especially the R-28Fs.  I've been kinda busy this weekend, but I'm aiming to check them out tonight if all works out.

 

Again, thanks for all of the input.

[The History Kid]

The important thing is your own satisfaction.  I say that for the same reason I balk at auto-cal room correction.  No one can tell you what sounds good to your ears except you.  A good example of this is that most people here will say the newer RF II gear and the latest RP gear sounds better than the Reference Line previously.  But I think the first gen Reference are better.  Most people on the Emotiva forums would use the EmoQ or Dirac for their sound calibration - I insist on running it flat. It's all a matter of perspective and finding that sound that resonates with you.

 

Good looking out!

 

@wvu80 - Haha, thanks.  I figured now that I'm sending the applications out to grad schools I better clean up my act!

[Lipoly]

I tried the R-28Fs.  They are also louder at any given volume than my current mains.  

Overall, I think they sound pretty good.  They do have a noticeably brighter sound than my current ones...not sure if I like that, but I suppose that is just a personal preference.  The highs did appear to distort just a bit at high volumes whereas my current ones don't, but I suppose I can warm the sound up some with EQ settings in the receiver and possibly get rid of that while also bringing the overall tone closer to my liking?

 

[The History Kid]

Just now, Lipoly said:

I tried the R-28Fs.  They are also louder at any given volume than my current mains.  

Overall, I think they sound pretty good.  They do have a noticeably brighter sound than my current ones...not sure if I like that, but I suppose that is just a personal preference.  The highs did appear to distort just a bit at high volumes whereas my current ones don't, but I suppose I can warm the sound up some with EQ settings in the receiver and possibly get rid of that while also bringing the overall tone closer to my liking?

 

What you are observing is a feature of the horn.  People tend to notice brightness with Klipsch speakers.  I don't know much about your AVR, but the aluminum tweeters may be related to that juxtaposed to the titaniums in the RP/RF series.

[stevoc921]

Thanks, guys. Wish there was a way I could demo them at home without buying, because basically it sounds like (pun intended) I need to hear them to see how they sound in my setup and go from there. 

[RoboKlipsch]

It's a self-serving suggestion here, but I do have an RC52ii (black) for sale.

 

I had the R25C, upgraded that to the RP250C.  Used to be with the R28Fs, I eventually upgraded/changed those to RP160Ms.

 

In my basement I originally had the RC52ii with my RF52s, RB51s, RS52s.

I recently changed out my fronts to matching LCRs, from a DIY brand option.

 

The RC52ii (whether mine, or someone else's) may represent a sweet spot here...it is much better than the R25C, not quite as nice as the RP250C (by a bit), but used would be much less expensive.  I'm asking $150 + shipping but would work with you if interested.  There are lots for sale too so plenty on ebay and craigslist.  

 

Don't be afraid to make a change but definitely know what you're changing and why.  Centers are touchy, in that one may look bigger but when calibrated it is often similar.  The "timbre" of the speaker is the main difference, how it sounds.