lynnm Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 JR FWIW I recognize that your comments were not necessarily directed at me in particular but your closing comment seems to paint all of us with a very wide brush. I would point out that my comments should be understood to mean that 20 watts of clean power is adequate to drive the RF's. I also stated that I was not holding out 20 watts as a maximum and further have stated that there are many excellent SS amps available although my preference is for tube amplification. With regard to dynamic headroom - so long as the extra power available for instantaneous peaks is of good quality, (ie. non clipping) - there is nothing wrong with judiciously using an amplifier that can deliver more output than the speaker needs Where is the bias in that ? Are you suggesting that those who prefer tube amps are biased and by extension those who prefer SS are unbiased ? We are in agreement however that clipping is a very bad thing and that the quality of the output is of far greater significance than the quantity or the type of amplifier providing the power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Good post, Lynn. I bent over backwards trying not to be "tube biased" in my post and was mainly discussing the quality of the WATTS in relation to amplifier design in general, whether it be tube or solid state. In a way, I think JollyRoger was acting more on bias himself and less on reading the actual text within the posts. Of course, I have always faulted the close reading skills in this forum, almost across the board. Perhaps it is indicative of forum interaction but it has always been a thorn in my side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 lynnm, I was up a little late sorry, didnt mean to rant like that. You asked "Are you suggesting that those who prefer tube amps are biased and by extension those who prefer SS are unbiased" What I meant was that people on the Klipsch bb in general, and more so the two channel forum, are biased toward tube gear. Why is this? Because more people own and recomend tube gear here than just about anywhere else. Didn't mean to sound like I'm pro one side or the other. I have tube gear and ss. JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 I cant speak for the whole forum, but I will say I dont think I am simply "biased" towards tube gear. I have had good examples of both tube and solid state amplification and have recommended both types within this forum many times. I have written very long posts just dedicated to quality solid state amplifiers. If anything, I would say I am biased towards MUSICALITY and naturalness in sound, not HIFI which I think good solid state nails when in the better brands. Show me a solid state amplifier that exhibits the same musical tone and naturalness in uncompressed dynamics with an uncompromised midrange and top end, and I'll buy it! I have had some VERY nice solid state amps, including the B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks (only mentioned since you have B&K), and found that my vintage 14w Williamson EICO had more quality sonics, across the board. AGain, I would buy a SS amp tomorrow (within $$ reason) if I could locate one that had the same musicality. I keep an open mind on the two types and am always looking for a great SS bargain. I did a review in this forum on the SS Monarchy Audio SM-70 that did surprise me to some extent, but was ultimately unable to overcome that electronic nature evident in almost all solid state amplification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Quote "In a way, I think JollyRoger was acting more on bias himself and less on reading the actual text within the posts. Of course, I have always faulted the close reading skills in this forum, almost across the board." This is taken from the first three replys to this topics; "I suggest you stay under 20 Watts / chan" "I run a pair of KLF30's with a 30watt/channel tube amp and can rattle my windows anytime the noise bylaws permit. As pointed out above the quality of the power supplied to the speakers is far more important than the sheer quantity. That 1st watt is the most important." "Whilst there were differences in the sound they all sounded perfectly reasonable and they all went way too loud for my tastes. With the tubes (mine) they went so loud that I had to listen in the Garden with the volume on half way. In answer to your question you do not need 200 wpc." Is that not tube bias? mobile, you have a sharp tounge. Where else do you get those type responses to question about a three channel amp in conjunction with a ht reciever? Its people like you that make me not want to post here. What did you really add? Nothing! Just a personal attack. Yea your a real smart guy, it shows... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Christ, where did that come from? Just a personal attack? Take a look at your own post, Jolly. I just re-read your three examples and I am still trying to figure out how these are totally tube biased. Even though they mention tube amplification, they are talking about watts in general. If anything, that post you left was over the top and not warranted. You are reading WAY too much into those examples as WELL as my post above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Although I rarely post here because of tube bias... ha ha, just kidding.... I thought a good tip came from the member that mentioned the sound differences of various amps(SS). Although you may have difficulty actually trying out various amp brands with your speakers, it would be time well spent talking with others that have like speakers and use amps as you are comtemplating to determine what amp would compliment the sound of your speakers. I guess some would argue sound differences in amps and receivers, but not me. I personally use Acurus amps with my Denon receiver and Synergy speakers. My speakers sound more 'warm' or less 'forward' than Reference and I believe the Acurus amps are a good compliment in that the Acurus amps tend to sound more 'forward' than other amps I have heard and therefore, along with AudioQuest wire, seem to give me back some of the detail that was lost with the 'warmer' Synergy's. Tastes just right. Hope this helps. Keith Oh yeah. If you're cuttin' your fronts small, I'm not sure the larger amp will help very much as the real work (power) will be routed to your sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Mobile, Response #1: "I suggest you stay under 20 Watts / chan" mh, maybe you'd like to recomend a few quality ss 20 watt amps? response #2: "I run a pair of KLF30's with a 30watt/channel tube amp and can rattle my windows anytime the noise bylaws permit. As pointed out above the quality of the power supplied to the speakers is far more important than the sheer quantity. That 1st watt is the most important." Does this mean tube amps supply more quality power? Response #3: I'll just say: my tube amp this my tube amp that...you don't need x number amount of watts da da da. Why not just say I have a tube amp thats this many watts and is loud as hell at half way. Why list 5 ss amps to talk about a tube one? First let me apoligize to the posters, I didn't mean to single you guys out. I know that these guys probably didnt mean to be pro or con anything. I was just using an example of three post with pro-tube overtones. And your right maybe I did read too deep, but that was just the first three posts, and you can see it clearly confused the original question asker. Why is that? Three people can respond and yet confuse more? Because of the way they answered... JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 A few 20w SS amps? Here is one. It beats most of the SS I see listed in this forum including the above mentioned Denon offerings. Monarchy Audio SM-70 http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=10561&forumID=68&catID=19&search=1&searchstring=&sessionID={E2AC6A63-FA12-42C4-BAEB-4B7B515D4647} I have a 20wpc NAD 3020 integrated that I still love; I gave it to a family member and am still amazed at the quality of the sound when I visit. On efficient speakers, it does very well. Will it have the bass of 200w monoblocks? No, but it is more tuneful with better pitch. Any of the older NAIM integrateds These are very low power amps that have EXCELLENT sonics, again, much better than any denon receiver, not matter what the watts, given efficient speakers. ...there are others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Nelson Pass also made quite a splash with great sounding low powered class A SS amps...tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Recomendations, a couple of late 70's amps and one from what, an on-line only company? Either way they're few and far between and good luck finding one 20 watts or less thats of high quality. Maybe he even meant one that is class A up 20 watts. I really don't care either way as I was just making an example. If you reread my original post, I was refering to quality not quantity of either flavor. I just tried to give a word of caution that this board is biased, as I kinda felt this was the way the topic was leaning. Does that mean for some reason I have poor reading skills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 #2: "I run a pair of KLF30's with a 30watt/channel tube amp and can rattle my windows anytime the noise bylaws permit. As pointed out above the quality of the power supplied to the speakers is far more important than the sheer quantity. That 1st watt is the most important." Does this mean tube amps supply more quality power? That comment was in response to the issue of whether or not one needs a massive amount of power to achieve substantial listening levels. I did not imply anything beyond that. As far as the comment re the first watt - A clean watt can come from any type of amplifier tube or SS. A good amp is a good amp - Period! A poor quality tube amp will sound as hellacious as a poor quality SS amp and the converse is also true. If you prefer SS to tubes - Fine. Kick back with a glass of vino and enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandern Posted October 3, 2002 Author Share Posted October 3, 2002 Ladies, Come on now and quit scratching at each other on my first 2 page post. I will start another post asking what people what amps they use on their RF-3II's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Lynnm, just making an example, again sorry to the first three posters(Leok and Maxg also) didnt mean to imply anything about your statements. You just made easy examples. JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 I have another twist that can be added to the fray. I myself run RF-3 II's in my HT setup. For movie's I use my Sony 975 and it does a bang up job. I have no desire to upgrade my HT amplification at all. But I found this setup absolutely horrible at music way to bright very little air between the instruments. Just a pour sound stage. So I use a HH Scott LK-72 30 Watt Tube amp when listening to music in this room. It pushes the RF-3's like a champ tons of bass !! In fact I don't even use my sub at all even though the Scott has a mono channel out that works great with Subs. I have a number of SS amps nothing high dollar at all. But when it comes to bang for the buck its hard to beat any of the vintage Tube amps for great sound on a slim budget. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 "But when it comes to bang for the buck its hard to beat any of the vintage Tube amps for great sound on a slim budget." Yup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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