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rplace

XLR to Unbalanced RCA to Phoenix

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20 minutes ago, rplace said:

Starting to see the light @babadono Yesterday I did not have the vocabulary you did and was confused about "Shield". To me they are all wires. This does a pretty good job of explaining that when you are going form unbalanced output to balanced input both ways in the picture posted will work but the one with the shield and 2 wires is better.

https://www.presonus.com/learn/technical-articles/Balanced-Unbalanced

 

I'm going to order some RCA ends that I can solder up and just cut both ends off some of my XLR cables I ordered to have the 2-wire + shield on my input side for the long term. Still might give it a go with my simple dual ended RCA cables with one clipped off and a jumper at the Xilica side.

 

As for the Balanced to Unbalanced as I move from the Xilica to amps I'm still trying to figure that one out.

A lot of Presonus's diagrams are direct copies from Mr Whitlock(see AES seminar linked above). What confusion are you still having about connecting the Xilica outs to the amps RCA inputs?

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14 minutes ago, babadono said:

 What confusion are you still having about connecting the Xilica outs to the amps RCA inputs?

 

From what I gather you need to know something about the balanced output device. One of the reasons I bought the Xilica was because I figured somebody here must have used it with unbalanced gear. Here is a quote from the last site I linked to

 

Quote

Connecting a balanced output to an unbalanced input is a little trickier. You need to know something about the circuit that feeds the balanced output in order to do it properly.

 

But it does not elaborate on how to know or what to do. Do you connect your Xilica to an unbalanced amp? If so is it the same connection you originally outlined with 2 wires + shield? If not what?

 

Thanks for all the help so far!

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30 minutes ago, rplace said:

 

From what I gather you need to know something about the balanced output device. One of the reasons I bought the Xilica was because I figured somebody here must have used it with unbalanced gear. Here is a quote from the last site I linked to

 

 

But it does not elaborate on how to know or what to do. Do you connect your Xilica to an unbalanced amp? If so is it the same connection you originally outlined with 2 wires + shield? If not what?

 

Thanks for all the help so far!

Yes I posted in another of your threads about this, that I have knowledge about the internal workings/topology of Xilica's output circuits. I know that Xilica's output circuit is only a balanced impedance, there is no active signal on the minus output only signal ground through an impedance that matches it to the plus output impedance. Therefore we can connect it directly to the ground of the unbalanced equipment at the RCA connector.

Thus far I have only used my Xilica with balanced inputs. But have No Fear, it will work.

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30 minutes ago, rplace said:

From this link https://www.rane.com/note110.html I feel this is the best bet so far for my Balanced Xilica out to Unbalanced RCA amps. Agree?

 

EuroToRCA.JPG.33aae4ad09007e77428e48e39c97a37e.JPG

 

 

Remove jumper from minus to chassis at euroblock. Connect shield to black wire at RCA end. This will make chassis currents flow in separate conductor(shield in this case). and not in the signal ground.

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18 minutes ago, babadono said:

Remove jumper from minus to chassis at euroblock. Connect shield to black wire at RCA end. This will make chassis currents flow in separate conductor(shield in this case). and not in the signal ground.

 

So just like we were discussing previously with the 2 wire + Shield? To be clear both the Unbalanced to Balanced and then Balanced to unbalanced  - the same cable creation?

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4040 solves everything.

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5 minutes ago, Schu said:

4040 solves everything.

 

But I need more ins/outs when I go to integrate my HT.:cool: Weren't you the guy avoiding active crossovers and DSP?

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Is this a dsp thread or a connector thread?

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21 minutes ago, Schu said:

Is this a dsp thread or a connector thread?

What 4040 are you referring to?

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1 hour ago, rplace said:

 

So just like we were discussing previously with the 2 wire + Shield? To be clear both the Unbalanced to Balanced and then Balanced to unbalanced  - the same cable creation?

Yes.

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Must have done something right. Seem to get high pass and low pass  right. 1st try no noise and sound out of left channel only. Figured out the mixer and sound from both sides. Next I brought down the output of high end just by ear and high/low balance seems good. Great sound stage both width and depth. 

 

Zero idea on PEQ, GEQ, ETC. Also I did all my filters and attenuation on the output side, is that reasonable?

 

 

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45 minutes ago, rplace said:

 

Zero idea on PEQ, GEQ, ETC. Also I did all my filters and attenuation on the output side, is that reasonable? 

Now you're getting into where I need to go also. This is more @Chris A 's bailiwick. I would not want to even pretend I know anything about this yet except following someone else's instructions.

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Looks like we can close the books on this one. Xilica support got back with this brief info for unbalanced wiring below.

 

Pretty much spot on to what @babadono said, I just did not initially understand it, fully in his words. Just curious; be it a Balanced cable or RCA why don't they put all those loose strands (the shield) into a housing like the other wires? Is it actually shielding/blocking something like interference? If so why would it need to be soldered up to anything? If it is doing something with the signal why not make it like all the other wires and need to strip a bit off?

 

FROM Xilica:

Quote

Wire the Phoenix as usual G/-/+ with a Line level balances cable. On the RCA end go  + to Tip and tie the G/- together on the shield tab.

Hope that helps.

 

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I would have purchased 2 of the Xilica 4080 units before I'd buy anything with those Euro connectors.  Sorry I can't help with the wiring.

 

As far as the programming I know the Xconsole pretty well.  I'm no wiz at the front of the unit.  I just plug in and use a PC to make any changes.

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12 minutes ago, mark1101 said:

I would have purchased 2 of the Xilica 4080 units before I'd buy anything with those Euro connectors.  Sorry I can't help with the wiring.

 

As far as the programming I know the Xconsole pretty well.  I'm no wiz at the front of the unit.  I just plug in and use a PC to make any changes.

 

Ha, actually they are not that bad. They disconnect from the unit to make it easy to screw down. The +/-/G is just like the pins on an XLR. All my issues came from the unbalanced side and not really knowing what I'm doing. So far so good.

 

I watched an Xilica video, not much help. Initially I was confused on how to map the inputs to outputs. Seems like that is done with the mixer. Currently I'm wondering where is the right spot to make the simple things like a high or low pass filter. I did it on the output figuring you want one amp to have LF and one to have HF. If you did it on the input side and say only sent over 250hz and above I'd think you would never get anything below 250 anywhere. Next up is the gain. The reading I've done suggests you want to knock things down not boost other things up. Is that correct? I've currently got a Crown XLS 1002 with gain control for the LF. My SET amps for the HF have no gain control. Should I put the Crown and full gain and then adjust as needed on the Xilica for either more HF or more LF by dialing what ever needs to be back. Or am I getting way ahead of myself here and this is where I need to start measuring the speakers individually with REW?

 

Previously I had no crossover at all and gave the full range to the HF and used the DSP and Gain on the crown to limit it to around 250hz and adjusted output by ear till they blended nicely. The HF horns with 8" drivers seem to overpower the bass bins so they need to be dialed back or the LF section boosted.

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I have no idea what you are trying to control.  Can you give a quick description of the system equipment?

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7 minutes ago, mark1101 said:

I have no idea what you are trying to control.  Can you give a quick description of the system equipment?

Sorry, sure.

 

I'm moving away form a 3-way khorn passive set up to a 2-way Oris 150 horn an either a Khorn bass bin or Onken bass cabinet. Currently I'm using the Onken cabinets below the Oris 150 horns. Audio Nirvana 8" drives for the Oris horns are full range and the Oris horn is supposed to be good down to 150Hz. Seems like a lot of Oris people cut them off around 200-250. I have the Crown mentioned above feeding the R/L bass bins and Wright 3.5 SET amps feeding the R/L Oris. So my set up currently is:

 

Wright WLA-12 pre with RCA/Phoenix to the Xilica >> Xilica 2 in 4 out >> Phoenix to RCA for the Wright 3.5 mono blocks HF and Phoenix to XLRs on the Crown for LF. So the only balanced connections are from the Xilica to the Crown used for LF

 

So far no noise at all. Happy with that.

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Sounds like an interesting setup.  I don't know why you got the 8080 for a 2-way setup.  :)  It's good you have no noise.

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