Miles Davis "Kind of Blue"

[timerr]

Miles Davis... his horn soothing out of a Klipsch horn loaded tweeter... I guess that could be a match made in heaven....

Anyway, need some help here, I have this on what's called "THE DEFINITIVE VERSION!" on CD. Says it's newly mixed and 20 bit remastered. Like everyone here says, Klipsch speakers greatly bring out the limitations of a recording. My question is, do any of you that have the really good turntables still in your systems, and have a good copy of this on LP hear as much hiss and background noise as the CD version. I know I'm fueling the fire hear for Digital/ Analog with this. Just looking for some more experienced imput. Thanks.

[Mike Lindsey]

I have the Columbia/Legacy #CK64935 recording of this on CD and it has more hiss than any other CD I own. But... it still sounds unbelievable if you can get past it. I am using the Scott 299/Rega Planet and my modified La Scala's and this CD sounds incredible! Hiss and all.

I am looking to get this on vinyl but haven't found it anywhere. Is there a certain LP I should be looking for? I'm going to assume that this was first pressed by Columbia?

Thanks,

Mike

[dubai2000]

I was told that it was reissued by Classic records (?) as an audiophile pressing - I guess similar to what Speakerscorner or Analogue Productions are doing. It's on my list quite near the top, so if anybody has bought this please let us know.

Wolfram

[Parrot]

The best version is the SACD.

[eq_shadimar]

I agree. I just picked up the SACD of this last week and it sounds incredible. I don't have the LP or CD to compare it to but the SACD is an great recording. I would recommend it.

Laters,

[dubai2000]

So is the CD mentioned above, but I would nevertheless invest in a vinyl copy because this might be even better...

Wolfram

[Poleelop]

Well, after quite a bit of waiting, I finally got my tube amp last Friday. "kind of blue" on SACD was the first SACD I bought (although a few SACD sample CD's came with my Sony 555)

Anyway, that's one awesome CD.....though I do hear some hiss.

As for the amp, it sounds good and it looks cool. But I'm not blown away. Maybe my ears aren't as good as some of these true audiophiles....and maybe; just maybe...that's a good thing. The amp sounds better than the SS I replaced it with a low to medium low volumes. Can I hear things I never heard before? Yes. Does it make me more critcal of of the harsher highs in my old solid state gear. Yes...but with a caveat. To me, those really harsher highs only become really apparant at high volumes. At high volumes with the tube amp though, the sound seems to get muddled...sluggish...distorted. I'm not sure of the best description, but I know I'm not crazy about it. The bottom line: if I want to listen to more accoustic type music at lower volumes, I definitely want the tube amp. If I want to crank up some hard rock, I'll probably just walk into the media room and play it on my HEC's RF-5's

Actually, the best sounding CD I've heard on my new setup is not an SACD. It's "Sweet Tea" from Buddy Guy.

[Mike Lindsey]

Poleelop,

Please list your equipment for us...

Mike

[mobile homeless]

Poleelop, if you got that ASL AQ1003 amp, to be honest, I am not surprised.

First of all, it's BRAND NEW. Needs break-in. Tubes are stock and not that great. And that amp is not World famous for sonics but nice for new (think there are better options however).

You should hear HUGE differences in the harmonic richness with a more atmospheric presentation with more air, this on just about ANY tube amp in a system that is setup remotely well.

I happen to like rock on tube amps INFINITELY better than SS. Almost all the great rock was done on tube guitar amps for the very same reason.

kh

[mobile homeless]

As for the standard 20bit remaster CD of the Columbia pressing via SONY, I think this is of subpar quality compared to the analog versions. I almost never listen to it preferring even 80s repressings via the TT. There have been a ton of issues of this record and some are not up to snuff. The original is VERY sought after and out of reach. The hiss you will hear on most of the recordings is TAPE hiss from the original.

Thankfully, the music is SO GREAT and of such amazing caliber, it even survives the worst of releases. Even the DIGITAL REMASTER LP, which is HORROR, cant ruin this recording with some of the best of the best and an a amazing session, almost all done on first and second take. Each of those musicians in that session is tops in their field... Miles, Coltrane, Cannonball, Bill Evans, Paul Chambers, Jimmy Cobb, and Wynton Kelly.

If ANY OF YOU have a nice analog setup, you OWE it to yourself to seek this recording out on vinyl! The difference is not subtle.

[T2K]

Check out www.amusicdirect.com for Miles Davis vinyl.

Keith

[Parrot]

Hiss is good, as long as it's the hiss from the master tape. This is not to be confused with hiss generated from multiple generations of copying, like we are familiar with on cassettes, for example.

If there isn't any hiss on an older recording, that should set off warning bells. That would mean that the recording has been processed to remove the hiss, and that cannot be done without affecting the music as well.

The most excellent Bob Belden has been working on the Miles SACDs. Here is an old post from Audio Asylum:

*****Bob Belden has weighed in on the DSD transfers he's produced. Some interesting comments, including the fact that the U.S. and Japanese versions are the same DSD remasters:

"Every issue of Miles Davis titles that come from Japan were mastered by Mark Wilder and Seth Foster in NYC. The Japanese use the US generated masters. The difference in sound (if there is any) is due to the manufacturing specifications of each country.

"These new (2000) Japanese issues are downconverted from DSD masters. In mid-2002, Legacy will release "Filles De Kilimanjaro", "Water Babies" and "In A Silent Way" as single CD's. They will be mastered from the current analog masters using DSD. For "In A Silent", the original 1969 analog master will be used as the tape is in great shape. "Filles" will have an extra track as well as "Water Babies".

"Every version that has been issued is going to be different than the previous. In the eighties and nineties, Columbia had difficulty addressing digital information and had reissue producers who were mere clerks. As a result, many of the issued CD's were from second or third generation masters. Starting in 1996, with the Mastersound series for Japan, close attention to the original source became the focus of the project. For instance, Round Midnight had been issued on CD using a third generation Dolby A copy (made from a second generation (1973) Dolby A Ampex 456. On the DSD reissue, the original tape made in 1956 was used and the difference is subtle but stunning.

"'Live At The Blackhawk' (both volumes) suffered from complete deterioration of the master two-track analog tape, (a fourth generation Dolby A copy made on Ampex 456-the worst case senario) so the DSD mastered version (made in November of 2001 for Japan) was created from the original three-track master mixed directly into the Genex (the DSD master) using minimal sonic adjustments.That is a close to the original source you are going to get, and it represents the best aspects of the music." *****

[Allan Songer]

I have KOB in many formats--a mint original 6-eye mono, a VG+ or better 6-eye Stereo, the Classic Records "speed corrected" 45 rpm LP set, and a circa 1995 CD for the car.

The mono 6-eye is the BY FAR the best sounding version in my opinion.

[dubai2000]

So even the 80's pressing sounds good? This I can get for $15.00. So do you think spending double on the Classic records issue is worth it?

Wolfram

[Poleelop]

As Mobil pointed out, I just got an ASL AQ1003 DT. I'm using it with a brand new Sony SCD-C555ES, a DH Labs SILVER SONIC BL-1 Series II Interconnect, and my Klipsch Forte II's that I bought around '88.

I still want to test the waters and buy something used, and I have a small room that I'd be happy to put another stereo in. I'm all for trying an SET. I know what mobile would suggest in SET's. How about speakers?

Also, what tubes would you suggest in the ASL I have?

[jazman]

According to my son, "Kind of Blue" is the LP I play most, and he's correct. He's heard it from the day he arrived home from the hospital, and will hear it until he no longer lives in my household. If I've done a good job, hopefully he'll buy his own copy one day.

In my opinion, The Classic Records Quiex SV Super Vinyl, version of "Kind of Blue" will appeal only to those who have never heard the older original stereo or mono vinyl versions. The Quiex is a more quiet recording, but missing the dynamics of the earlier recordings, too much pumped up bass and a constrained sound to the instruments. Some argue that it's the time correction that makes the difference in sound. I do know it's not as dynamic as the version I've listened to for years. AS an alternative to finding an original, there is a ton of remastered versions that I prefer to the Classic release. The non original cover artwork sucks on the Columbia Jazz Masterpieces re-issue, but the digital remix is by Teo Macero and Larry Keyes. If anyone knows how it should sound, it's Teo. Much closer to the original versions. I have found it for as little as $5.99 still shrink wrapped, because I assume, quite justified, everyone hates the non original cover. No collector value, but I think sounds tons closer to my much older release. If they had packaged it with the orginal cover, it would fly out of the bins. I assume Classic bought the rights to package it with the original cover and people flock to it. Save your money on that piece of "super vinyl"!

On the other hand I found a great 180 gram release of Joe Henderson's first Blue Note release, "Page One" BLP-4140/BST84140, which I have. The 180 gram vinyl version is a 1998 release with Blue Note under control of Capitol Records. Worth owning. Still not the orginal in sound.

I tend to buy 180 gram releases only when they are marked down to under $15. I prefer to purchase used original vinyl instead, though I realize that is not an option for many who do not live in areas with an active used vinyl market. Until I hear a super CD rig for an "extended" session, I still say, vinyl is better based on my current limited exposure to that format. I am however, willing to be proven wrong if someone is willing to do so.

Klipsch out.

BTW, Most of those Miles LPs with that band, Herbie, Wayne, Tony, Ron, during the late 60's early 70's can still be found in any good used vinyl shop. A much better buy than super CD.

[dubai2000]

Edmond,

thanks a lot for the info. We have a music shop in our town which also stocks vinyl releases - all new, but not all are so-called audiophile pressings. I got myself two Blue Notes from the 1990s (one by John Coltrane - Blue Train and the other Somethin' Else by 'Cannonball' Adderley). The latter is a 180 gram pressing which cost $14.00. I have never heard original Blue Notes (and knowing prices never will) but I find both of them more than decent. So I'll go and get myself the 'non-audiophile' KOB.

Wolfram

[sunnysal]

don't forget the the new issues are speed corrected, that all the "original" version were a little slow, this was corrected just recently...tony

[mobile homeless]

Sunny, you didnt read ole Jazman's post? The 20bit Sony CD is supposed to be the corrected version as well. This CD lacks bloom, resolution, and any life to a large extent. In typical Sony fashion, it is devoid of all things important in a recording. There is a reason why you see that edition all over Target and Wal-Mart for $6-9!

kh

[timerr]

Thanks for all the great info and input on this recording. Seems like Mr. Davis made a soothing connection to a lot of us. When I listen to it... it relaxes me like a glass of smooth wine.