Audio Flynn Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 I am in another obsessive compulsive phase. After a few watts(or less) of SS power the Chorus IIs sound a bit harsh. I have been scouring the net for the cheapest way to get into tubes since I have limitted time to hunt for a vintage to rebuild. I am not giving up on the vintage route though. Passive Pre Amp.....Creek OBH 12 $ 299 mono amps.........Antique Sound Labs "The Wave" 10 watt 2 x $ 120 A beginner set up of new separates perhaps. --------------------------------- Or perhaps the Antique Sound Labs Integrated AQ 1003 DT with EL34 tubes for $ 830. Anyone auditioned or tried these options? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 also look into the nOrh SE9 integrated for $499, I am listening to one now and should be able to tell you how I like it in a month or so - does your SS receiver have pre-amp outs so it can serve as a pre-amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 My experience is with the similar Forte-IIs. They are very revealing and will tell you all about high frequency distortion. I found with tube amplification, no-feedback and triode-mode reduce the high freq. trash and help to make the speakers disappear. Most SETs have no feedback. There are some no-feedback, triode pp amps. I looked at the nOrh SE9 on their web site .. I can't tell if the design has feedback. I doubt it does. Maybe colin knows. Colin?. If the ASL Wave is the pp design that uses the triode/pentode combination tube, be careful. Also, I think that design does use feedback. The pentode is similar to the EL84 with which some, Eico HF81, have had success, but ASL may not do so well. I'm not that familiar with the ASL line. My Fortes are currently on the tube amp listed below and the combination makes just about anything else I hear sound harsh. I ended up with a current-sourced E88CC (twin triode) as a differential pair for a phase splitter in order to have a sufficiently balanced pair of signals driving the KT66 output tubes (in triode mode). With the Fortes I could easily hear the improvement from the simpler "concertina" style phase splitter I had been using. I mention all of that stuff to emphasise how sensitive the speakers are and that a good tube amp will sound better than a mediocre one. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 That nOrh SE9 integrated looks like it came from the same factory that put out the ASL lowend stuff. Personally, I am not so sure about the ASL solution. That Chinese factory puts out more tube amps than Purina does cat food.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Round and round he goes, and where Kelly stops -- nobody knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 I'll take $200 for a pair of barely used Waves with cages, cords and a spare set of "matched" tubes. They will come in the original boxes with the original "manuals" (a single sheet). The spare set of tubes cost me $45. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 I think that people regard tubes as a panacea. They are not. Just adding 'tubes' to a piece of audio equipment does not make it better. Tube amps can be good, if they are well designed, and designed with the qualities of the tubes electrical properties in mind. Finding the dammed cheapest tube solution is a journey destined for disappointment. Having said that, I will say that my initial foray into tubes was a low cost Zen amp, and at $500, it barely made enough output to drive my khorns to a moderate level. But, what they lacked in steam, they made up for in musical articulation. I jumped out of my skin with the first spin of the CD. If a person wants to get into tubes (which is a valid goal, nonetheless) and do it cheaply, then perhaps vintage equipment is a good choice. I won't list the stuff that's out there, and I would be the first to say it has it's drawbacks, but when it comes to hifi, you can pick any two of cheap, quality, or easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 I own and greatly enjoy the Antique Sound lab AQ1003DT . At the time of purchase I had directly compared it against several Tube and SS amps in similar listening situations. Some of those amplifiers sold for several times the price of the AQ . I found that I preferred the AQ in virtually every case. It is one damned fine amplifier ! I think that some assume that the fact that it is made in China which is outside of the United States automatically means that it is second rate crapola like Japanese and German cars ! AKA aside - I believe that quality design and construction have nothing to do with national origin/racial/ethnic boundaries. A well designed American car is every bit as good as its foreign counterpart. The Japanese and Europeans, ( aided by the so-called American Literati ) , have done an excellent marketing job and have managed to persuade many US buyers that imported vehicles are superior to domestic production by definition. It is interesting that in Japan vintage US iron sells for absolutely insane prices. I recently read about a '62 Impala Convertible that sold in Tokyo for the equivalent of U$100,000.00 ! In any event I recommend that you narrow your choices down to 1 or 2 and then try it with your speakers and sources in your room - If at all possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 I dont know where the idea that if it's made in China, it is bad came into the equation. I DID mention it was made in that Chinese factory that puts out many, many tube amps, for a variety of companies that rebrand it but I dont question the quality just because it's China. Indeed, I agree with you 100% here. I have no partiality towards USA, Europe, or China, as I have seen quality and mediocrity come from all of the above. I think it best to judge by the company, not the country. I do know that this same Chinese factory does put out a large variety of tube amps and then sells them branded as many makes. I also know that a friend was getting ready to become one of the major US online dealers for one of the companies using their product and declined after sampling an across the board run of their products. He was not impressed with the build quality per say and two of the units needed some service right off the floor. He went elsewhere. Others have been happy with various models. I just think there are other options out there I might go with first. I do know you are happy with your model. BTW, what amps did you compare it to? At the near $1000 price, there are a host of used options that are very intriguing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Kelly Please take another boo at my last post as some of it disappeared into the digital mists after I posted. (Some of what appears is a mental recreation and may differ from what others may have seen - ie the precise wording of my original post.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Fair question re comparisons: The amps that come to mind are YBA , Rega Brio , Cambridge Audio and Sonic Frontiers. Any of these amps would be an excellent base for a decent stereo system. I will not be so arrogant as to suggest that any of these amps are inferior to my AQ if connected to the best/ most compatible sources and speakers. Frankly at this level we are arguing Bentley vs. Rolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 HORNS LOVE TUBES! all other things being equal, which they never ever are, the super sensitivity of horn loudspeakers shows off the sonic benefits of tube based equipment in a way that cones only hint at, even single cone driver only begin to hint at what horns with tubes can do, but then they do not do it all, the middle of the Klipsch line also hints of these capabilities, but not as well as the big old horns do, so far every tube amp I have heard on every speaker I have heard them on have had some wonderful music qualities when compared with tawdry SS amps of the same price range, only the super amazing Pass X250 amp of mega buck proportions has made me think that some SS amps may be able to do what tube amps, even cheap ones, do so well ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted October 27, 2002 Author Share Posted October 27, 2002 I like the chance to work on projects with my son. How can I get information on leoks Homebrew amps to build? I do not mean to say cheap in a derogatory sense. I bought the Chorus IIs for $ 800 and I think the used Chorus is far to superior to the RB5 at a retail list of $ 800. Real cheap, but a family heirloom has been acquired. My HT habit over the past several years has been an expensive learning experience that HT and music do not mix well for me. 3 satellite receivers, 2 HT receivers, one sub and one TV have been sent on their way at a loss financially. They did not make the music more pleasing. I just want to start at a place in terms of cost I can work my way up over the next few years. The price of Moondogs, Conrad Johnson, and Mac are probably destined for another part of my life; minus the kids. All of the comments are great. Thank you! I will probably have to wait until after Christmas to make a step in the tube direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Audio, I sent an email note and schematic of the concertina design. After reading the note, If you want to procede with the diff-amp version I'll post it here. By the way, does anyone know why I don't see any attachments on this web site? .. I used to on the old one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Leok Look at the just below the bottom of any given post. If there is an attachment there it will be a text based link,(underlined), to the photo or file and will appear in the contrasting coloured area immediately below the text area. I agree that it should not be necessary to go hunting to identify links but that is the way it is with this particular software Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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