spin Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 I have been trying really hard to figure out what the "best" receiver in my price range is. I have come to the Denon AVR 3802 (3803 new model) or the Onkyo TX-DS898. Has anyone on this forum tried these or compared these two at the same store with the same speakers. I have heard both, but it was different stores and different speakers. This makes it hard. I hope someone here has tried one or the other or just heard them at a local dealer. Any replies welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Ok, I have to make my pitch here. Have you considered Harman Kardon? I have the 520, however, I guess a new line of receivers are either out, or just arround the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin Posted October 30, 2002 Author Share Posted October 30, 2002 There is no Harman Kardon dealers in my area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikjohn Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 I think that Circuit City carries HK. That is if you want to buy from them. EJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 the only receiver I will ever buy is either a Rotel, or a B&K. these both will rain over the Onkyo, or Denon receivers. Especially for music. They are much simpler designs, without all the wastefull gimicky add ons. Plus they look much better. The B&K win in my opinion for build quality, just because they are built very well especially for their cost. I have one of their preamps and love it. their website is www.bkcomp.com . Rotel are built just as well, but have a different look. they have these really cool lookin heatsinks on the front that give them a heavey duty look that makes denon's and onkyo's look wimpy. the addy for their website is www.rotel.com . they are priced extremely resonably, and are just better than both onkyo and denon. just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 the only receiver I will ever buy is either a Rotel, or a B&K. these both will rain over the Onkyo, or Denon receivers. Especially for music. They are much simpler designs, without all the wastefull gimicky add ons. Plus they look much better. The B&K win in my opinion for build quality, just because they are built very well especially for their cost. I have one of their preamps and love it. their website is www.bkcomp.com . Rotel are built just as well, but have a different look. they have these really cool lookin heatsinks on the front that give them a heavey duty look that makes denon's and onkyo's look wimpy. the addy for their website is www.rotel.com . they are priced extremely resonably, and are just better than both onkyo and denon. just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 the only receiver I will ever buy is either a Rotel, or a B&K. these both will rain over the Onkyo, or Denon receivers. Especially for music. They are much simpler designs, without all the wastefull gimicky add ons. Plus they look much better. The B&K win in my opinion for build quality, just because they are built very well especially for their cost. I have one of their preamps and love it. their website is www.bkcomp.com . Rotel are built just as well, but have a different look. they have these really cool lookin heatsinks on the front that give them a heavey duty look that makes denon's and onkyo's look wimpy. the addy for their website is www.rotel.com . they are priced extremely resonably, and are just better than both onkyo and denon. just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 the only receiver I will ever buy is either a Rotel, or a B&K. these both will rain over the Onkyo, or Denon receivers. Especially for music. They are much simpler designs, without all the wastefull gimicky add ons. Plus they look much better. The B&K win in my opinion for build quality, just because they are built very well especially for their cost. I have one of their preamps and love it. their website is www.bkcomp.com . Rotel are built just as well, but have a different look. they have these really cool lookin heatsinks on the front that give them a heavey duty look that makes denon's and onkyo's look wimpy. the addy for their website is www.rotel.com . they are priced extremely resonably, and are just better than both onkyo and denon. just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 oops, I guess thats what happens when the computers at school go so slow, and ou get frustrated and press submit like 10 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Onkyo used to be a great name. I have heard they do not build em like they used too. I have the Denon 3802, and am very pleased with it. You have great speakers... Take the 3802 or (3803) home and demo it a few days. I am sure you will be happy after you get it home. The denon is warm rich and quiet aloowing you to hear the dynamics and richness Klipsch Speakers are made for. Hope this helps. Also remember, FYI... just cause it sounds good in the demo room at your local hi fi store. It may not be so good at your house.. So take your time, and enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 I like Onkyo products. I have a 989. Both the 989 and the 898 you are looking at have Dolby Digital 5.1 audio dropouts along with a few other Onkyo lower priced models. Onkyo has admitted that this happens on a few DVDs BUT that is not the entire story. Here is part of a letter from Onkyo that concerns the dropout issue with the 989 which applies to the 898. The latest upgrade will fix the audio drop outs on DVD movies with the Dolby Digital problem. It does NOT address the issue with Satellite drop outs. Dolby Laboratories and the satellite companies are researching the issue right now. However Onkyo is offering another fix for owners of these models that supposedly covers the DVD and broadcast DD 5.1 audio dropouts but they are handling it on a case to case basis with a chip replacement. NO total recall here folks. Thats not the deal they are offering. In other words unless the 898 you are purchasing has had the proper chip replaced you will experience audio dropouts on SOME DD 5.1 DVDs AND various broadcasts of movies that are aired on pay channels such as HBO. If your dealer tells you it does not have the problem try to bring with you ,rent them if need be, copies of the Jurassic Park 3 and Pearl Harbor DVDs to their show room. These are the only two titles that Onkyo admits publicly have audio problems with some of their units and may be exactly what your dealer will tell you but there are others. The dropout issue is widespread with many titles that are broadcast such as Evolution, The Heist, Planet of the Apes, and most HBO airings of movies in the last 6 months. It also has reportedly happened on Cinemax , Starz, and more. People have been buying a new 898 only to learn they need to order the chip and bring the unit to their authorized service center for installation which has been reported to take a few weeks. If your dealer tells you the 898 you are looking to buy has no problems then break out the 2 discs I mentioned and test it. Onkyo will tell you to use the DTS tracks or Prologic instead but you will be using the discs in the Dolby Digital 5.1 setting just to see if the unit has been fixed. If there are audio drops out on these discs then it will happen on much more material then they care to talk about. The TX-NR900 is this years model that replaces the TX-DS898 . It should not have the same problem.Unfortunately Onkyo makes a great product with a chip goof up produced by Cirrus and a miscommunication problem between them an Dolby Laboratories that has to do with their new EX decoding. Its involved. I will back up the Onkyo name with the overall satisfaction I have had with their products and at the same time like the user friendliness of their receivers compared to the Denons. The Denon specs on the new 3803 look good versus the reliable 3802. It has bass management crossovers to add 40/60/80/100/120HZ options , improved 100MHz bandwidth component video switching with Video Conversion(composite to S and/or component)with on screen display, Burr-Brown 24/192 A/D and D/A conversion, Dolby Surround EX mode, 2nd optical digital output, 3 digital inputs for a total of 7, assignable 12V trigger for the main AND second zone. Looks good on paper at a MSRP $1,200 and the 3802(a Klipsch forum favorite) can now be picked up for around $750 versus the Onkyo 898 for around $1,000 and the new NR900 lists for $1,500. Im just offering a little advice before you make your decision about a deal that appears attractive to you right now. Good Luck and be careful out there. Vrooooooooooom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin Posted October 31, 2002 Author Share Posted October 31, 2002 Thanks guys, I just like the way the 3802 sounded with the RF-3 setup and thats all I have to go on. I am certain that all the above mentioned brands are very good, but I will have to go with what I have heard with theRF-3s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 denon sucks, pooooooor customer service, can be hard to listen to, tiring! onkyo is a good product, great customer service, had an 474, and an 797, now son uses the 797 for his gaming, but rotel, ahhhhhhhhh, there is no comparison, it is the difference between bose and klipsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe11 Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 I have the 3802 with the RF-3's and honestly for the money, I don't think that you will be disappointed. I have had great success with Denon in the past. I upgraded from an AVR-2500 unit which I had for around 10 years. Never a problem. I tried out the Onkyo-898 for a few weeks, but I continued to read positive reviews of the 3802, and it was a brand that I was familiar with and trusted, so I took the 898 back and picked up the 3802. Feature-wise for certain there are other units on the market with more bells and whistles, but I knew before purchasing exactly what I needed out of receiver and the 3802 provides everything that I need and at a fair price. I would say from a usuability standpoint, the Denon is a bit more demanding to setup relative to the Onkyo, but nothing that a little bit of time and reading the manual couldn't fix. I do like the improvements noted on the 3803, but if you could find the 3802 at a good price and are on a budget, I don't see how you could go wrong. Anyway I vote Denon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbry39 Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 My vote would also go to the Denon, but like a couple of others have suggested, try to audition the HK or Rotel. To my ears, all are excellent for HT, but the HK and Rotel and much sweeter sounding in two-channel sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nak Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 u heard of nakamichi? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nak Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 i agree with u about denon, but ill never sell my nakamichi series 7, rotel is ko, but i would love to compare specs. most amps have "global" negetive feedback loop..from out-put to input seems perfect solution, at least on paper, in theroy"global" or "overall"feedback reduces distortion and output impedance by the same factor that it reduces voltage gain. it's a trade off- you give up voltage gain to reduse distortion., at first glance , the trade off seems good, its easy to increase gain, especialy if you need n't be concerned about distortion, and then use feedback to reduce gain and distortion along with it, its like getting something for nothing....feedback is most effective when it is not needed and least effective when it is...it assumes there's gain to trade to reduce distortion. in the cross over region and at clipping, gain drops to zero....the therory goes out the windowfurthermore feedback is always late...by the time the signal reaches the output, the input has changed and the feedback"fixes" the wrong problem, measure a half cycle late, feedback changes from negetive to posotive and the amp oscillates. the amp must be stabalizedby reducing high-frequency gain so that, when the feedback turns positive, theres no gain left. the more gain to begin with, the lower the frequency at which it(benefits of global feedback loop)dissapears......in otherwords , check out a nakamichi series7 amp, it has bootstraps, total flat frequency response..20-20,000 (+0,-0.5 dB) YOU'LL NEVER NEED TO LOOK FOR ANOTHER AMP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 It seems like this "which receiver" is starting to turn into a holy war of sorts. To answer the orginal poster's questions, I have a Denon AVR3802 myself and I found it to sound quite good with my RF-7s. (And this is directed to anybody reading this, not necessary the orginal poster) If you went with the Denon AVR3802, you certainly are not doing wrong, but as others have said, there are other products out there that are worth checking out. It all comes down to how much you have to spend, what features you are looking for and most importantly, how well does it sound to you. After all, it is you that has to live with it everytime you turn the thing on to listen/watch something. To me, the Denon AVR3802 just happens to fit my budget, has the features I am looking for, and I think it sounds very good with my RF-7s. In the end, it all comes down to another "Chevy vs. Ford", or "Mac vs. PC", or "Coke vs. Pepsi" type of debate. They are all good products and you certainly won't go wrong taking one over the other, but they all fit the different needs, tastes, and/or wants of the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCturboT Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 nak, Yes the Nakamichi is a excellent amp-do you own the PA-7 original or the PA-7II series? I was on the lookout for my brother to find him a system and found a 1 owner, meticulous cared for Series 7 system that I longed to own way back in 1987 but just didn't have the $$. Its a Nelson Pass designed amp and is built like a tank as is the rest of the components. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 1 thing i have learned, the hard way as usual, by spending too much money, is that speks are very misleading, and any good salesman will tell you the same. when i purchased my recievers, i purchased on sound and speks, bells and whistles, man was i wrong. my rotel has slightly less ( i cant say worse) speks than my last onkyo, but man o man, is there ever a difference in clarity, plus i have the same and more functionality, plus room for expansion through programming than i did before, plus i have more of the bells and whistles, but all in neat little packages, that are sooo easy to use, man o man when i first began listening to this new system i felt as if i had been delivered, new horizons...... every time i listen it is like it is all for the first time mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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