Hah! Found my old turntable...

[Tom Mobley]

I knew it was out there somewhere, found it by accident while looking for a 69 Z-28 manifold and carb setup.

It's a Yamaha Natural Sound YP-211 with a Shure M95ED cartridge on it. IIRC, it's belt drive, the cartridge is/was almost new when I parked it around 1988. Worth fooling with? I don't think I own any records anymore, but there's a used record store not far from here.

Icing on the cake, in the box were the original docs from my 77 Heresy's. Big clasp type envelopes, instructions, brochures, inspection sheets and even my half of the warranty cards. I knew I had to have them somewhere. It was only a few years ago I tossed the boxes, they had fallen apart completely but I think I spotted the styrofoam packing blocks in a big garbage bag in the back corner of the attic. Cool.

Tom

[lynnm]

" Worth fooling with? "

OF COURSE !!

This will likely be an expensive experiment once you discover how good it sounds and start wondering if better TT's and carts could sound even better!

[mobile homeless]

Yamaha turntables were not that bad! For free, sitting in your garage, it's hard to do better. I would opt for The Donut or STandard mat to replace that useless plastic job (see the thread on the Donut mat). I woujld personally go for a new cartridge since you dont really know the condition of that old Shure and that's a long time anyway. Get a protractor and align the new best. I actually had a Yamaha YP-D6 DD table in a second system and with a good mat and a Sumiko Bluepoint, I was really surprised at the sound. And your table is not that bad! Not sure of what you are going to do for the phono stage but I see vinyl in your future.

As an aside, I really think the EICO is best suited for LINE INPUTS as the phono section is ok but needs a rebuild usually. The Line stage is much better. Pat says the phono can be made to sound quite nice but it wont equal the line stage.

kh

[Tom Mobley]

Uh-oh.

"This will likely be an expensive experiment once you discover how good it sounds and start wondering if better TT's and carts could sound even better!"

This is exactly what I'm afraid of. Maybe I should accidentally run over it with the car or something before it's too late.

kelly,

I already hit the phono section with a set of used but nice Tele's and replaced the main caps with auricaps. Should help it a little. It's sounding better all the time but still has the hum. I bought a new Fluke meter and Craig was nice enough to spend some time on the phone with me going over all the voltages. All checked out good. The Fluke checked the .025 disc caps I replaced as .030's, so the .033's I put in are not far off. The original 30uf PS caps checked out at 35 instead so the 40 Spragues I put in were close too. The new Auricaps and Spragues check right on the money on the meter.

One of my NOS Mullard 12AU7's was so microphonic it was unbelieveable. The vendor is replacing it now, good deal.

I'm going to replace the can cap with discrete Spragues under the chassis, I think there's enough room for two 40s and a 20 under there. If that doesn't fix the hum I'm toast.

Does anybody have any suggestions for a new volume control? the two sides of mine are not the same but I looked around some and haven't seen anything to replace it as far as the size and the long shaft. I'm going to bypass the balance control and replace the volume pot/s.

kelly, did you ever get the two emails I sent you about the "B" nets? I was surprised to get no response at all.

Tom

[NOSValves]

Tom,

Vibroworld.com will custom make you that can cap for about $25 just make sure you spec the max. height so the cover is still usable. It will slid right in there like the Original and look darn good to boot.

Craig

[Tom Mobley]

Oh, really. It goes in the original case? I didn't know that. I looked at their site awhile back, looks like you can get about anything there. I wonder what kind of quality they are, the Sprague's would only cost about $15. I'm going to be over in the east valley, I think I'll stop by AES and see what they've got. I need a volume control, the one I've got has substantially different resistance between the two side. The balance control isn't so hot either.

Craig, if bypassing the balance control wouldn't a guy need to install a couple resistors with value equal to what the stock control has when centered? Or something like that?

Tom

[arco]

Craig,

Very happy to hear you mention Vibroworld...as I was about to write a post wondering why in all the cap replacement proposals out there, nobody mentions the replacement of the multi-section PS cap...

Well, last year I ordered such a cap from the said company to replace the NOS cap in my MR-71 tuner. Construction is more than O.K., although different than the original. Did the sound improove? Not by much, but now I have peace of mind!

[mobile homeless]

The caps in these cans seem to last a lot longer than the caps under the chassis. I personlly have shifted away from trying to replace every cap I can. I have changed theories big time on this. Of course, if there is a problem YES. But too many people jump to replace everything...and now I am not sure whether this is wise sonically, if not for the obvious safety. Some improvements can definitely occur, yet sometimes the character of the amp is lost with some of what makes it so great in the first place scattered with the winds.

btw, Arco, I wrote a number of posts directed toward you all about. I guess you missed them.

kh

[mobile homeless]

BTW, for ALL EICO HF-81 owners, I have a good buddy that is totally testing a load of mods on a stock EICO HF-81. He is trying ELNA in the PS along with different bypass caps, resistors, bypassing the tone controls (via leaving out one half of 12AU7 as well), taking out balance, etc etc. I am going to post a lot of the findings on this here soon. He has some interesting comments comparing the EICO to his Tenor audio amps, 300B Parafeed Cobalt SET Monoblocks, and other 2A3 PP. Stay tuned on this one.

kh

[Invidiosulus]

Mobile,

What would be a good price on an EICO HF-81??

I've been thinking about tracking one down once my Heresies get here(tommorow I hope)and using it with my JBLs or the Heresies in a two channel setup with a TT.

I know the older tube amps tend to need some work but, my dad(marvel) is a pretty good electronics technician. So I may be able to convince him to help me on any necessary upgrades as long as I pay for parts(and don't flunk out of college )

Thanks for any suggestions you might have.

Peace, Josh

[mobile homeless]

Nice jazz bass pic, btw. I have a Fender Precision - I always wanted a Rick for the tone and insane action it has...anyway...

The ole HF-81. Well, it was a hot topic on ebay ahwile back but has finally come back down to earth. Still, prices have gone up from the time I bought my two units for $100 a piece. Those deals are gone unless you happen upon one in a flea/yard/roadside hell hole.

It seems a good working EICO HF-81 with some vintage tubes is going to land in the $300-375 range these days. I think if you keep your eye out, you might find more than a few ok versions in the 200-275 range that might look a bit dull, tarnished, and suffering from neglect; yet these units offer the best bang for the buck if the iron and the contruction was done with care. The EICO can clean up very nicely with some polish, paint, and some soldering iron tweaks. BUT, even a pretty nice unit at $375 is HEADS above anything even NEAR that price in a store. If the unit does have some Mullards that are in good shape, that price makes sense.

I am now thinking the Scott 299 might be a better option if you want one unit with a phono stage. I have to review this and might be getting a Scott very soon to compare. But the EICO phono stage needs work to sound better. The line stage is probably the best I know in the low watt vintage arena, this dispite the pedestrian looks. But PLAND says the EICO phono can sound good. To me, it is adequate stock and needs work. The line stage is second to none so far with me.

Be patient. Read all you can. Ask sellers a bevy of informed questions. Dont jump on the first thing you see if not right. You are up on many in that you have someone that is well-versed in electronics/soldering. He can teach you the ropes as well, an invaluable asset.

Drop me a mail if you have any other questions.

kh

[NOSValves]

Well Here's my Moto on replacing can caps. "If it ain't broke don't fix it"

The reason they go bad is from someone firing them up after they have sat unused for years without a Variac. I have 8 vintage amps here of my own they were all brought up very slowly on a variac and all the Can Caps are still in perfect order and exceed the factory spec by a good margin. If the amp doesn't hum the cans are fine !! (this doesn't mean all hums are caused by Can Caps)

If they do indeed need replacing I always order them from Vibroworld they do a awesome job. There cans are nothing more than small Radial lead Electrolytic stuffed into a real nice can to keep your amp looking some what Original. They pretest all the Lyctics with 50% extra voltage load to insure there durabilty. I think they sound great ! I always have them up the Value as much as physically possible on Scott amps because the originals are usually way above the value that was Spec on the Can or the Schematic. So your basically losing filtering capabilties if you order the Value listed on the can.

Now coupling caps is where Kelly and I part way's. Keeping them in your amp is a time bomb waiting to happen. When they go they give zero notice and can do some serious damage to your tubes and transformers. Also 40 year old caps aren't doing your sound quality any good at all even if they do still test within spec they aren't doing the job as they did when new that is a sure thing. I've tested about ten Scott amps and all the caps test dead on spec but the amp sound horrible do nothing more than change the caps and they start sounding balanced and equal channel to channel. As far as Scott and Fisher amps go they both use a Selenium Rectifiers which supplies the Neg. Voltage to the Output and preamp/Phono section tubes. These are ALWAYS bad and starving the tubes for Neg Voltage sometimes by a large amount. This will distort the sound and ruin the tubes !! I just finished a 299B for a fellow member and his tubes were shot because the seller was running the amp with Neg. voltage 30% lower than required this was a suppose plug and play amp !!

Craig

[Tom Mobley]

Craig,

Got any ideas on this question I had earlier?

"Craig, if bypassing the balance control wouldn't a guy need to install a couple resistors with value equal to what the stock control has when centered? Or something like that?"

These would be dead center in the signal path, right? What type of resistor would be suitable?

Tom

[mobile homeless]

You have a couple of options here. I have heard very good things about the cheap little $2.99 ALPS stereo pot from Radio Shack. Although it has a no cover and is not labelled as such, this is supposedly a good pot I have heard from reliable sources. You could buy TWO of the pots and wire one per channel to have a de facto balance with the two pot. It would also provide excellent separation. The downfall is slightly more work to control volume.

OR, you could use one of these pots in stereo and simply bypass the balance. I dont think any resistors are needed here. The other way leaves you with some control of balance with the benefit of sep. But, you do lose convenience. The choice is yours.

Radio Shack Stereo Pot (ALPS)

Here is a more expensive ALPS pot called the ALPS Blue Velvet but my cohort said the RS was just as good but without a case. Still you might want this. Both should be 100k.

http://www.angela.com/catalog/potentiometers/Alps_Pots.html

Also, check out other catalogs. I dont think you need to put a resistor in but a 200k would work if you really want to.

kh

[Tom Mobley]

mobile,

thanks for taking time to look this stuff up. I looked at Angela but didn't find that one you found. The schematic calls for a "250K" pot but the one(s) in there only go up to about 125K. I ordered a pot from AES yesterday afternoon along with a can cap and some other stuff. They had a can cap that's 40-20-20-20, I can strap together two of the 20's to make a 40, also picked up a pair of Sprague 40's and a 20, one way or another I'll get rid of that hum.

I'm going to order up both of the ones you found, try them all to see what works best.

I'll re-measure the resistance of the balance pot to see what it has at center, IIRC it was non-trivial.

Thanks again for taking time to help here.

Tom (not interested in those B nets, huh?)

[NOSValves]

Tom,

Sorry I missed your question .. I've been real busy at work these day's. I'll have to go down and look over the Focus Pot wiring I bet you don't have to install the resistors but don't hold me to it yet.

Craig

[mike stehr]

Tom,

The multicapacitor can you just purchased from AES, is from CE Manufacturing for around 35 dollars, right?

I was looking at these last night, been wanting to buy one/two of these for months.

I have two Eico HF-12's, and one has a leaky multicap can.

I have been holding out because I am getting two more HF-12's.

And if I can take these multicap cans to the guy I know, and have him reform them up on a variac, just maybe, maybe I can get a good quiet vintage can out of it.

Maybe with four HF-12's, I can come up with two (Kinda) stock units.

Mobile Homeless has always raved about the internal pre in the Eico HF-81, and I never thought much about it, even when I chucked the internal pre in my HF-12's and made them straight amps.

Then when Craig gets a hold of a BB member's HF-12's, he reports that he prefers the internal pre-amps also.

(Hmmmm....These two guys hitting on the same thing? It got me thinking.)

So I'll put the pre-amp circuits back in them, it'll save the time/money/hassle of looking for a external pre-amp.

(Well, for now.)

My Hf-12's sound pretty damn good really, but always seems a little thin in the lower mid/bass registers.

I am thinking the lack of the internal pre is the reason, or one of them.

(Plus that hum in one amp.)

The Hf-81 and the Hf-12 are kinda pretty much the same thing, with the Hf-12 being a mono integrated.

Angela has JJ multicaps 40/20/20/20 @ 500 volts, 1.5" dia., 2" tall.

Ten bucks. I thought about that, but you need a clamp, and would have to drill holes in the chassis, too much hassle.

I don't know how tall the multicapacitor can is in the Eico HF-81, but my Hf-12 Cans are two inches tall, the CE Manufacturing one is two and a half inches.

The tube cage won't clear the can if I use these, oh well.

I'll have to suffer with SE 6BQ5 when I work on the Eicos.

[NOSValves]

Mike,

I don't even think Vibroworld can build a can with those values at only 2" tall.

I will confirm that using the tape outs as the input on 2- HF-12's and my HF-81 the sound was very thin in the mid and bass compared to using the preamp.

Craig

[mike stehr]

I totally forgot you have a HF-81! DUH!

Yeah, I better get the internal pre-amp circuits back in these, no dought about it.

[Tom Mobley]

(Hmmmm....These two guys hitting on the same thing? It got me thinking.)

it is suspicious, has anybody seen these guys in the same room together?

My hf-81 will take something 3" tall under the cage, I ordered one from AES here in town along with two 40 and one 20 Sprague. One way or another I'll get it hooked up.

That balance pot has significant amount of resistance in the neutral position, I'm still at work but will update with the measurment when I get home tonight.

Tom