pettyfeversk Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Well, I took the leap and picked up my RF-7's today and have been having a blast listening to my music and hearing sounds that I had not heard with my previous speakers. I hooked it up to my old Adcom GFA-555 for starters but I am thinking about getting the B&K 2220 amp for these speakers. How much of an effect or difference in sound do you think I would hear with the B& K amp. Also, would I need to go t a different pre-amp. I have an old Adcom GFP-555. Would I need to get a different pre-amp or would the Adcom be fine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Why don't you sell both Adcom units on AudiogoN for $650, and get a nice integrated unit. A "good" 75 to 100 watts will drive them to ridiculous levels -- and still sound good. You should be checking out used gear as well -- if you want that B&K, you can probably pick it up practically new for a little more than 1/2 price. www.audiogon.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 all I can say is I wish I were you right now. An adcom at 75-100 watts will be loco. My Mcintosh is 105 watts and can get up to the 110 db range with no distortion at all. and at that level is when your ears fill with fluid to lower the sound level by an average level of 20 db, and the music sounds a little quiter, so you keep turning it up, lol. the fluid takes awhile to drain out too. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 10, 2002 Share Posted November 10, 2002 All I can say is you would get more refined sound selling both those units. I had an Adcom GFA-555 and serious improvements can be found for not that many more ducats. The GFP-555 preamp is actually kind of veiled sounding compared to other units. Although I am not too familiar with the sound of the RF-7 (IOW, I have never heard the beasts), I think your entire presentation will be lifted to another level with a better amp and preamp. But those are nice units for the money; you just stepped out of that bracket with that speaker purchase. I think tube would be better but that's your call. I had the top of the B&K monoblocks in my main and as a backup systems for quite a few years. They make some smooth amps, much more dimensional and life-like than Adcom. However, I think there are even better offerings in both the SS and tube camp. Tubes would make your RF-7s sing with less glare. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted November 10, 2002 Share Posted November 10, 2002 Go for tubes or Class A ss. The RF-7s bring out the low level distortion that is a characteristic of most ss amps. Also, try something more in the 20 Watt range. That might be all the power you can use with the RF-7 sensitivity of 102dB @ 1W. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Leok and Mobile I use ATI 2505 with RF7's! Its sounds so...POWERFUL Not the tube sound you love but then again I listen movies and techno most of the time on the Klipsch.There is nothing like two pairs of RF7's woofers slaming you with eight 10" woofers in the face with some good electronica. For real refined music(music with soul) I use my Dynaudio Contour with SImAudio MOON/Celeste amps.Really a winning combination,musical like few. However I would advise against Adcom amps,I had two Adcom power amps the 200 x 2 and the matching 3 x 200.Well built,solid...not musical at all.Even with Dynaudio speakers they did not make a good match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettyfeversk Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 RF-7 Speakers and B&K 2220 Power Amplifier. Does anyone have this combination as part of their system and if not, has anyone heard the RF-7 speakers with this B&K amp. How good a match is it between the speakers and the amp. What other amps do people have connected to these RF-7's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Most of the prolific posters here on the two channel forum have converted to tube gear. I had a B&K 4420 (predessor to the 4220) pushing some RB5's. B&K is a good choice, but it will not sound as good as a tube amp at the same price point. Also, your Adcom preamp will mask much of the benefit the B&K is trying to give you -- though it will certainly sound better than the 555. How about sharing with us your room size, musical tastes, and volumes you normally listen at. Also, is this system doubling as HT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettyfeversk Posted November 12, 2002 Author Share Posted November 12, 2002 Thanks for the response Dean. The room is 12 feet by 22 feet with my speakers at the front of the 12 feet with the tv. It is a carpeted room with a high ceiling. The typical family room or den. I listen primarily to rock with some classical music thrown in also.The full spectrum from acoustic to heavy metal. I can go from Rush to Tracy Chapman to Tom Petty to 50 minutes of lute music by Bach performed by Gergely Sarkozy. I listen at pretty decent volumes although I am trying to avoid inner ear damage so I dont blast quite as much as I used to. Any information would be helpfull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Big Room. Big Appetite. With a room that big, with the volumes you probably like to listen at, I'd say you probably do need more power than what low powered tubes can give you. So, that B&K lists for $1300, and you can probably get it for $1000, right? What's in your budget, and do you have anything budgeted in for a preamp, now, or down the road a little? Doing 2 channel only, right? Do you have a sub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettyfeversk Posted November 12, 2002 Author Share Posted November 12, 2002 Dean, I can get a good deal on the B&K 2220. Its a two channel set up, I dont have any subs. I cant afford to get both the B&K amp and the preamp now. I am leaning toward the amp based on what you and others have stated related to upgrading the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 pettyfeversk, Just to muddy the waters here...are you set (no put intended) on solid state? There are many other tube offerings that have plenty of power and provide a great tube sound. There are two tube amps that immediately spring to mind that I have owned in the past and was quite impressed with. First is the Jolida 801A, a 60 wpc integrated amp that really drove my Forte' speakers to extreme levels with ease. You should be able to find one of these in the $700 range used. Secondly, and my favorite, is the limited edition re-issue of VTL's Tiny Triodes. These monoblocks offer a 25 wpc triode mode and at the flip of a switch they do 40 wpc in pentode mode. These babies use the EL-84 power tube. There is a pair at AudiogoN right now Tiny Triodes, these usually go for ~$1000 or less, but these do have a parts upgrade that mine didn't have. There are a couple other pair of Tiny Triodes on AudiogoN but they aren't the newer switchable model. You can read more about the VTL's at the VTL Tiny Triode spec sheet. Okay, I'll get off the tube soap box now and return you to your regular programming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettyfeversk Posted November 12, 2002 Author Share Posted November 12, 2002 There are so many possibilities, it can get confusing. I guess I thought The Adcom Pre Amp GFP 555 was supposed to have been a pretty decent pre-amp but posters are making it sound that if i combine the new B&K 2220 amp with my existing Adcom pre amp, the pre amp will neutralize the benefits of the new amp. I dont like those new preamp tuners. I dont even need a tuner as I never listen to the radio. Maybe I should consider a different brand of pre amp. Any other thoughts on my pre-amp by anyone else. I keep forgetting how old the thing is but I love the simplicity of its operation. I had hoped to avoid buying another pre-amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Ed beat me to the punch. I was trying to break you in easy, and not throw too much at you at once. Don't get me wrong, the Adcom 555 series of stuff was pretty darn good for it's time, and not all that bad now. The problem you have is the speakers you chose. The RF7 is extremely sensitive to what it's fed, and very unforgiving of distortion found in downstream components. Trust me, you DO NOT need 200 wpc. It's complete overkill with the RF7. Though the B&K is very good, it won't compare well to a tube amp. Most here have pretty much learned the hard way, and we are just trying to save you some grief. You can reach the same volume levels with an RF7 driven with 32 watts, as most other speakers being pushed with 200. In my basement, I have a set of vintage Dahlquist DQ-10's. I'm driving them with a 200 wpc Aragon. Upstairs, I'm running my RF7's with a 18 wpc tube amp. I can reach the same level of loudness with both systems. You really shouldn't shy away from used gear. The site I pointed you to (www.audiogon.com) is a community of audiophiles that take very good care of their stuff. All my gear in the last year and a half has come from there. My present setup with the RF7's, could never have been realised if I'd had to buy it new. The tube mono-blocks retailed for almost $3000 -- in kit form! I paid $1750, built, and broken in -- to my front door. Ed's suggestion to buy the 60 wpc Jolida is a good one. 60 tube watts will more than fill your room, and you'll never get tired of the richness. The best part of this deal is that it's an integrated unit, so you don't need a preamp with it. Even better, is that you would still have your 555 -- which you can bridge and use as a sub amp later, if and when you get one. You're choice though. B&K is good, get a preamp later, and you'll be fine. Knowing what I know though, I would definitely buy a used tube amp. Hell, stick around long enough and someone here will probably throw a Scott 299 at you. Don't be intimidated by tubes. The new gear is very reliable and practically maintenence free. You just have to replace the tubes every 3 to 6 years, and most new gear is being made with tubes that are made by NEW tube manufacturing companies. It's not a niche thing anymore. The B&K will be an improvement -- but it's not going to drop your jaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 B&K makes quality stuff and the Reference series is the their top of the line. I have a 299b and a Ref 7250. Dean, through my dinky rf3's the 299 is a nice amp, especially at low volume. But personally, I don't think it can compete with the sound of the B&K. The Rf7s are more sensitive though and tastes do vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 I agree, the B&K are good amps. It is HEADS above the Adcoms in tonality and harmonic richness, especially for a SS amp. I have not heard the Scott 299 yet. But I can tell you that I had B&K's top amp, the M200 Sonata Monoblocks, for almost 10 years. They were some of my favorite SS amps and I have heard quite a few. What displaced them in a second system? My $100 EICO HF-81 which was more musical, alive, true to life, and ultimately satisfying. Obviously, there was some things the 14w Williamson PP EICO could not do compared to the 200w monoblocks. Still, the little tube integrated was the more dimensional, soulful, amp. $2000 of Solid state power was essentially done in by a 14w push pull tube amp with stock parts from 1959. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe11 Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 I'm glad this topic is being discussed as I'm planning to pick up my RF-7's this weekend and I've read with a newbie's curiousity about the tube amplifiers that many on this board speak so highly of. I'm definitely guilty of believing that tubes are yesterday's technology. I'm not a studied audiophile and so I am now just beginning to get a better understanding of how it's possible that a 60w tube could properly drive the massive RF-7's and sound great doing it. I checked out the Jolida site and it provides a great newbie overview of the differences between solid state and tubes and also what class A and AB mean. One question that I do have is with regards to how my RSW-12 fits into the picture when using tubes. Being that the RSW is powered, are there tube amps which provide connectivity for the sub? I enjoy 2 channel + sub and I'm not clear on how well that is handled by integrated tubes setups like the 801A. If any of our tubes experts could enlighten me on this topic, I would appreciate it. Additionally, I would be interested to know of more of the top manufacturers in tube amplifiers that a newbie should look at if considering a purchase. ~shoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettyfeversk Posted November 13, 2002 Author Share Posted November 13, 2002 I learn more and more as I read the responses from different folks about different types of amplifiers. I have read a lot of good things about the quality of sound given from tube amps as well as the benefits of the solid state products. What about a company like Conrad Johnson which makes amplifiers that have some of the qualities of tube amps but makes them in the solid state format. They make a 2250 Amplifier that might be the best of both worlds. Does anyone have this amplifier or have heard it with the RF-7 speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Hi, My situation is (was) similar to yours. My $0.02: I recently purchased a B&K 2140 (2 channel 140W/channel) and I've used it pretty extensively with both Cornwalls and KLF-30's. In both cases I've been using my lowly NAD 3240 as the pre-amp. So, if you figure the KLF-30's are comparable to the RF-7's and the NAD is comparable to the Adcom then I'm in a similar situation as you. My room is 16' x 24' with 8' ceiling, with speakers 13' apart against the 24' wall. I've found the B&K to be a definite improvement over the 40W NAD. Most noticable were improvements in clarity, bass fullness, the reduction of harshness (especially with the KLF-30's) and overall power available (although I'm sure I never use nearly all 140W for my normal 85-100 dB listening levels). All in all I've found my B&K worth the upgrade, in my opinion, but I also plan on upgrading my pre-amp next year. I've read on this BB that pre-amps make more of impact on overall sound quality than power amps (mobile homeless, I believe). It might be worthwhile getting the B&K from your local shop and giving it a trial listen for a few days before you decide. Also, you may consider saving some $$'s and going with the 2140 instead of the 2220. 140W gives you a gain of around 21 dB, for 123 dB total with the RF-3's. Going with the 220 just gives you about 2 more dB on top of that. Although, to be fair, for very dynamic music, the 2220 will probably sound more lifelike at ear splitting volumes due to its greater headroom. When comparing price of power amps, tube vs. SS, also consider the cost of ownership. Tubes need replaced and, from what I've read here, also require time for care and feeding. I chose SS on the power amp end so I could just plug it in and forget about it. I may go tubes on the pre-end next year. Mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Mace, I believe the difference in the st2140 and ref 2220 are more than just total power output. If nothing else the more total watts will allow you to stay in class a longer. jmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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