KLF -30

[Kartracer77]

I just got my first pair of Klipsch speakers. The KLF-30s in oak.

They seem to be a little too Bright in the Midrange to me. I was wondering if anyone tried replacing the compression drive for the mids with a K53(Keresy IIs) vice the original K52 driver. Will the tame the mids down a little? It seems to me that the speakers mids over power the lows making the speaker seem out of balance. I would like to tone down the intenisty of the mids a little.

[lynnm]

I had the same isue with my KLF30's but determined that the problem was not with the speakers but rather with my equipment and listening room. Once I resolved the deficiencies in my amplification and CD player and tweaked my room the sound quality improved immensely.

The KLF series are mercilessly revealing.The upside is that when all is sorted they are outstanding.

PS. What are you using for amplification and sources ?

[Kartracer77]

Denon POA 2400a

Denon PRA 1100

Denon DCD 1500

I replaced a set of DQ10 with these.

[lynnm]

Quote:

"I replaced a set of DQ10 with these."

I can't comment on your amps etc. as I dropped out of the SS scene shortly after buying my KLF 30's.

I think that may be a large part of the difference you are hearing. I haven't heard a set of DQ 10's in years but as I recall they were smooth but a little soft in the mids. One of our members Deang recently rebuilt a set of DQ 10's. He may be able to shed further light on the sonic differences between the DQ 10 and the KLF series.

[Deang]

Ouch!

What did you do with the DQ's? Trade them in?

Well, swapping out that midrange horn probably isn't going to help much. The mid-horn from the Heresy isn't just going to drop in anyways. Also, most of what's happening with the response is due to the crossover.

If you are brave, and handy with a soldering gun, you could start experimenting with the resistors in the crossover. If you can isolate the ones controlling the midrange response, you can raise those values a little and drop the output of the driver.

You have made quite a drastic change in sonic signature. I find the KLF series extremely abrasive in nature. Short of modding the x-over, your only alternatives are...putting cotton in your ears, stuffing the driver with cotton, or lining your listening room with, yes, you guessed it -- cotton.

One thing that would certainly help would be to put them on a low powered tube amp -- it would probably do wonders.

I'm looking for an obnoxious set of three-way horns to play with myself, and if you grow tired of the 30's -- you might be able to persuade me into an even trade for my DQ's -- which are better than new in every way.

[lynnm]

Quote:

I find the KLF series extremely abrasive in nature.

If that be the case I suggest that perhaps you have never really listened to a pair of KLF30's with decent amplification. My experience with the 30's is that if the music is soft and sweet in the mids then so are the 30's. On the other hand if one loads up some chain-saw quartet then what one will hear is a chain-saw quartet. GIGO!

[Deang]

Man, that sounds like a great name for a Rock Band, "The Chainsaw Quartet".

You are right, I never have heard the 20's or the 30's with a good amp. I'm sure it makes a huge difference.

I'm also wondering if he got these 30's new. I think something needs to be said regarding break-in as well. Even the RF7's are a little rough for the first couple of weeks.

[lynnm]

If you have never heard the KLF's with good amplification then you have never heard them. Mine were glorious in the showroom and decent at home until I paired them up with a really good amp and CD player and they now far surpass the way they sounded when I fell in love with them.

As for break-in I don't buy that idea when it comes to speakers or cables although I will concede the point when it comes to tube amplification - ie during the first 20 minutes of a tube's life the metal elements will actually change shape to a degree and that could effect the electronic behaviour of the tube.

Bear in mind that in a 1 minute listening session the woofer will move at least 6,000 times - the midrange driver at least 60,000 times and the HF driver at least 300,000 times.

Average bass 100 hz/sec. x 60seconds

Average mid 1000 hz/sec. x 60 seconds

Average HF 5000 hz/sec. x 60 seconds

If any driver needs settling in it will happen within that 1st minute.

The figures above ignore any testing that would have occurred before the speaker left the factory and any vibration the speaker might experience during shipping or display at the dealer.

[Mighty Favog]

Having done this a few times now I can say that the room itself can have a profound difference. My girlfriend just has to re-arrange our livingroom furniture for the winter and summer. For the summer arrangement the system sits on the long wall. While providing great sound-stage it tends to be on the side of relaxed in the mids to HF dept. For the winter the monster sits at the short wall to provide us/me with little sound-stage but a hell of a lot of anything from 1KHz on up. Bass is about the same either way. Just today I was playing (cranking) Michael Jackson's "Thriller" before going to work since he tends to be in the news of late. I was VERRRRY tempted to go running to catch the 10Khz knob on my Mac C33. But I left it alone at 0 just trying to remind myself it's the room doing it. The furniture, BTW, was changed as well but additional chairs, tables, carpets, etc. were neither added or left out.

[Kartracer77]

are you the Dean/klipschhead from the polk forum?

[Deang]

Yah, that be me.

[dbflash]

I agree with most of what Lynnm had to say.

I have found that speakers do need to break in. Crossovers and woofer's. However in your case the brightness is not going to go away.

Speaker wire needs to break in. This will effect what you are hearing up to a point. If you have had your system on for a least 50 hours without turning it off your wire is burned in.

I started off using KLF20's and Denon. Bright as holy heck.Tried to give the speakers away and no one would take them. Hated Klipsch. Well I had too much money invested and a pissed off future x wife to quit.This is what I did.

Speaker placement: If you don't have the speakers at least 2.5 feet from the side walls and 2 feet from the rear walls they are going to sound bright. If you can't move the speakers 2.5 feet from the side walls hang a blanket on the walls. You are getting reflections. Toe them in.

Speaker wire: I know speaker wire makes no difference, but I have a closet full of wire. I have found that when using SS, solid wire is the best. I wouldn't use silver plated, just good copper. Audio Quest type 4 is about $3 a foot. Try that. That made the biggest difference TO ME. If you like it and want to bi wire use the type 4 for LF and CV4 for HF.

Interconnects: IC's make a big difference. I have a pair that I bought for $150. Sounded great when I was using a Onkyo, but sound so dead when I used it with a Rega CD player.

You have to play around with these speakers. I have used my KLF20's with Denon, Parasound and A 3.5 Watt SET amp. Once everything in the chain was corrected they sounded wonderful.

It's not hopeless and won't cost alot to get your system there.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Danny

[Deang]

Agreed. Good solid basic advice. Don't forget the cotton for your ears. Kidding...just kidding ;~)

[lynnm]

There is a lot of information regarding room acoustics/treatments on the internet. One of the best DIY sites is:

http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/index2.htm

TNT audio is another exceptional resource : http://www.tnt-audio.com/

I built a set of 4 acoustic panels using Jon's plans as a guide for about C$100.00. Each panel took a buddy and I about 45 minutes to build. At first I was disappointed in the result because the sound seemed somehow dulled but after a few minutes I realised that two things had happened and that the change had been so unexpectedly drastic that I initially had had a little trouble getting my head around it:

1.) The sound stage became so much more focussed than I had expected - initially it sounded almost monophonic but with a little more listening I realised that the group was in front of me and that the various performers were placed within that stage instead of being here and there and everywhere in the general surroundings. In fact I was able to easily visualise small positional changes as performers moved about on stage. A little more listening revealed that I was getting some ambient and rear reflected sound but not nearly as much as I was used to hearing. In fact since that time I have taken steps to re-introduce a bit of that ambience in a controlled manner and the sound is another notch better.

2.) It seemed as if the bass response of my KLF30's had gone into the dumpster but after a bit I realised that the panels had quelled a low - mid/upper bass resonant peak in my listening room and that I had as much bass capability/response as ever but that the bass response of my system - (the room is second in importance only to the speaker's capability of reproducing the low end and is a critical part of the system's sound) - had simply become more accurate. In other words - If your speaker can reproduce a note but your listening room cannot or can only do so in a seriously degraded form - the result will be that you will either not hear the sound or will hear a degraded approximation of that sound.

The reality is of course that there is no such thing as a perfect loudspeaker/amplifier/cd Player/etc. - So our quest for the closest approximation of the sound of a live performance will always be precisely that. The good news is that when all the elements are as right as we can manage - We can come Damned close !

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I had a set of KLF 30 for about 2 months before trading them in. I swore that they were too harsh in the mids and went back to my JBL L60's. I recently bought some Heresys and and had the same problem wirth the mid being too bright (although not harsh like the KLF's). I was really disappointed and ready to sell them when I finally heard the heresy's on a different amp. They were increadible, the vocals were so clear and lifelike. The receiver that I was running is a 13 year old Denon AVR-95A.

The moral, hook them up to a better amp and they should sound better.

I do have one question, did you buy them new?? If so, take them back and buy a used set of K horns. I just bought a set and they are fantastic. (they are also hooked up to Denon 5800 receiver that 2 sets of Heresys will be surround speakers for). The K horns even sounded great on the older receiver, although a little bright. Just make sure that you have corners to place them in and a big room.

If you bought the KLF's used, sell them and buy a set of used Heresy's. You should have enough $$ left over for a powered sub and you will have a set of speakers that you can use for a lifetime and fantastic sound.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

[Kartracer77]

Speakers were used. Wire is broke in, many years ago. I liked the cotton trick, just a little in the ears will do....

Speakers are 2 ft away from rear wall, 4 ft from side walls, 10 ft apart toed in slightly. Room is 15' by 18'.

Deang, my DQ-10 walked out of my old house several months ago. Was using RTi-55 until I picked these up. I liked the klf-10s my brother in law has. Heard them last time I was in Ohio.