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Robbie010

2 Way Klipsch La Scala

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I’ve built a la Scala 2 way without changing proportions and it was passive. 
dave Harris/fast lane audio eliptrac with de750 crossed at 500hz. Alk ap12-500. 
ive built lots of klipsch and klipsch inspired speakers. Thai was really special. No dsp was neeed. Had scale, speed and hammered.  

6E0BAE1C-915F-4FA8-ADF6-940FF21AD6A6.jpeg

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On 11/5/2020 at 12:25 PM, Robbie010 said:

I'm starting out on the road to going active using DSP on my La Scala and was looking at the option of going 2 way with a different mid-range driver/horn.  However, I'm really not in to breaking the proportions of the la scala in huge way so the K402 horn is definite no! 😄  What other Horn / driver combos would offer a sonic improvement when going 2 way without breaking the proportions / aesthetic?

A couple of suggestions with this:

 

1) Note that a two-way La Scala crosses well at 400-800 Hz, but the trade-off  of higher frequency crossover points is the loss of horizontal polar coverage.  The good thing about the La Scala bass bin is that the two mouths rejoin each other at the mouth (there is one mouth, not two, as in the Belle and Khorn).  This keeps the polar coverage from bifurcating as much at higher frequencies, but the polar coverage is still better the lower you can cross the bass bin with the HF horn/driver. 

 

2) The JBL 2425 is a 1" diameter exit driver.  The issue with these size drivers is that they really don't have much response below ~1 kHz, so your choices of how to join the crossover region become much less flexible.  (See the green trace below for a JBL 2425 on a 2370 horn):

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=4910&stc=1&d

 

Note also the fall off in response above ~7 kHz, which means that there is little advantage to using this particular 1" compression driver over a good 2" compression driver.  You'll find yourself having to boost the highs, or conversely, attenuating the mid-band to match the highs, just like good 2" drivers.

 

3) The reason why 2" compression drivers are used on the K-510 and K-402 horns is that they can extend their output at least one octave lower than 1" compression drivers, i.e., 500 Hz or slightly lower.  This gives you choices in where you can place the exact center crossover frequency that you don't have with a 1" CD.

 

4) The K-510 (first generation-without "mumps") clone horn having a 2" diameter throat works quite well and the price is very good: 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Replacement-Horn-KLIPSCH-for-K510-Speaker-Cabinet-15-x-9-Bolt-On-2-90-x-60/333537431240?hash=item4da8614ec8:g:8pYAAOSwQNNeYpIy

 

s-l500.jpg

 

The only trade-off here is that at lower frequencies, the polar coverage has a slight tendency to "waistband" relative to the mumps version.  This horn will fit in the same height top-hat (with a replacement baffle) as the K-55/K400 plus the K-77 tweeter.

 

JubLSI.JPG3.JPG

 

Here is a polar sonogram of a different horn showing the effects of waistbanding which are much more pronounced than the K-510-clone horn:

 

H290C_Horizontal_Contour_Log_Scale.jpg

 

If you are worried about this, you can actually create the mumps yourself in the clone horn by using modeling clay to approximate the mumps in the second generation horn:

 

IMG_2175.JPG

 

5) Good 2" compression drivers exist that don't chatter above 12 kHz, but they are generally $100-$200 more than less expensive titanium diaphragm 2" compression drivers.  The FaitalPRO 2" compression drivers are, in particular, very good above 10 kHz relative to 2" B&C drivers and JBL drivers.

 

Chris

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I know it's cheating, haha! But I am enjoying the La Scalas with the brand new B&C 2"" Coax.,  DCX 462. As close to 2-way as I'll get with these. Built a pair of Volti audio VX XO's with Greg's permission. Really like the filter. I have a pair of original K-510 in the closet but I am trying the 18" x 10" EBay horn first.

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Ok, so how important is the size of the motorboard the lens is mounted on?

 

I seem to recall discussions regarding this before.

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I know some significance exists regarding the size of the motor board but I am not there yet. Still experimenting. I will increase or decrease the size once I get there.

In the attached pic I was experimenting with 3-way with Dave's Elliptrac 400 and the Faital Pro HF-102 Tweeter and STH-100 Horn. Very nice but the horn I am trying now sounds better.

 

I got to do some extended listening today and I REALLY LIKE what I am hearing out of the new B&C Driver and 10" x 18" horn minus the Faital Pro. In fact this version mops the floor with all my previous iterations. And I tried the "Flatter" attenuation scheme on Voltis VX network for the first time and what a positive difference over the "Linear" version.

 

NEVER MIND what I said above. I will go as far as to say I'm done! I Love this sound and can stay Passive on this set of speakers which was my goal.

IMG_1477.JPG

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I guess it is a matter of personal preference, but I have always found CD horns (controlled dispersion) horns to sound better than others (non-CD). I have also found CD horns of the "modified tractrix" design (i.e., Klipsch K-402 or K-510) to sound the better than the other CD competitors (especially ones with a diffraction slot). 

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Ok, I would love to know more about this VX network... !

 

Bob Crites has an unpublicized crossover for the Faital Pro HF200 that I have had really good results with on a folded horn bass bin. It crosses at 500 hz.

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