La Scalas and subwoofer pairing?

[JohnCarney]

I’m thinking about getting two Rel Ti7 subwoofers to go with my La Scala AL5s.  The Ti7s are highly recommended and are supposed to be musical and fast so it seems like that would pair well with the La Scalas, while not taking away anything from that amazing, tight La Scala mid bass.  A horn load sub would probably be ideal but I literally don’t have the space.

 

Any general advice for pairing subwoofers with La Scalas?

 

Does anybody have Rel subwoofers with their La Scalas?

 

Is my space ok for two subwoofers?  The La Scalas are obviously huge and go into the corners.  The subwoofers would go in between my coffee table and the La Scalas…which seems less than ideal.  The space from corner to corner is about 12.5 feet.

 

Would it be better to go with a single subwoofer which goes lower?  Two TI7s go down to 30hz which seems good enough.   Or I could get a single S/812 which goes down to 19hz (probably not needed for unless I decide I can't live without pipe organ music).

 

How are people doing their crossover?  I see the AL5 are supposed to go down to 51hz but seems like bass might be dropping off above that.

 

Sure would be nice if Klipsch had a line of subwoofers that paired with the Heritage speakers.

 

Thanks for any help with my newbie questions!

 

[Panelhead]

  If you want a Klipsch sub contact Corey. He can fix you up. 

  I really think any good sub will work fine. It is all how much you want to spend. Doubt if you need 20 Hz. Flat to 30 Hz is plenty. 

  A sealed box sub is usually smaller than ported. Rolls off slower. Space looks to be a premium in your setup. But one the size of the table should keep up.

  Doubt if I could live without a sub with the LS II. Especially after having one for so long. Going back to full range would  be to hard. Might have to change speakers.

[OO1]

19 minutes ago, JohnCarney said:

I’m thinking about getting two Rel Ti7 subwoofers to go with my La Scala AL5s.  The Ti7s are highly recommended and are supposed to be musical and fast so it seems like that would pair well with the La Scalas, while not taking away anything from that amazing, tight La Scala mid bass.  A horn load sub would probably be ideal but I literally don’t have the space.

 

Any general advice for pairing subwoofers with La Scalas?

 

 

best persons to answer this question are  @CECAA850   @The Dude  @Pete H  , 

[woodzyowl0309]

I haven't used Rel subwoofers with my La Scalas, but I have used a single Rythmik F18. It blended in pretty seamlessly with crossovers at 80Hz. When I wasn't using an active crossover, I set the sub's built in crossover to 50Hz and it sounded just fine. Highly recommend Rythmik. As far as placement, the ideal location would probably actually be sitting on top of the speakers. 36 pounds won't hurt them. Dual subwoofers are fairly highly regarded and I can definitely hear the "bumpy" bass with the single F18, but it wasn't a huge problem to my ears. The one thing worth noting is that I had to crank the gain up on the F18 just about to the maximum to properly match with the LS using a 30 watt solid state amplifier, so the little Rels may have trouble keeping up with the LS if you like to crank the music up to party levels regularly.

[CECAA850]

General advice??  Cross them over high, at least 80 Hz, better yet 100.  The Lascala loses horn loading around 100Hz.  Get yourself an SPL meter and read up on calibration.  A poor sub calibrated correctly (phase, time, spl) sounds better than a good sub calibrated poorly.  A sub needs a lot more work to get it set up properly than your mains do.  Subs also rarely work best where they're aesthetically pleasing so you'll need to choose looks or function as to what's important to you.

[JohnCarney]

Thanks everyone for the info.  Had no idea that I should cross over that high, but it makes sense.  There is a SPL meter in my near future.

[Islander]

I cross my subs at 120 Hz to my modded La Scala IIs, since they start to roll off at 100 Hz, but the fact of a speaker rolling off above its stated low frequency limit also applies to subwoofers, but in the opposite direction:  they don’t cut off sharply at the top of their set hi-cut, they roll off gradually.  This means that having some overlap in the settings is desirable, because acoustically, it will add up to a smooth handoff in each direction.

 

If you get an SPL meter and a test CD (ideally one containing samples of bass tones from maybe 200 Hz down to 20 Hz or lower), they  will let you check the actual bass response of your speaker/sub combo at your listening position in your room.  You’ll need to make a chart or list of numbers to let you note the response at each frequency, because it may take quite a few runs from top to bottom to see which settings and positions give the smoothest bass response.  It won’t be possible to get the frequency response perfectly flat, so just aim to minimize the peaks and dips.  

 

The volume has to be loud enough to easily measure it, but you don’t need to shake the house in the process.  That will only give you and anyone else in the home a headache, since you may be doing it over and over for more than an hour.  Don’t be a bad neighbour or home-mate.  70 or 80 dB may be enough.  Also, as CECAA850 pointed out, you may find that the best locations for the subs may not be where you expect.  Experimentation, and maybe the Sub Crawl (look it up), will help you find out.

 

Finally, last summer I discovered that a more powerful sub produces more noticeable peaks and dips in the in-room frequency response.  Luckily, I had already planned to get a second sub a few months later.  The combination of two subs smoothed out the response quite a bit, getting rid of a nasty 20 dB peak right in front of the sofa.  

 

2 subs = more than 2x better than 1.

 

Just one more thing:  when combining speakers, like in a surround-sound system, it’s important that the speakers be timbre-matched, meaning that thy should not only be from the same company, but also from the same family of speakers in that company.  Ideally, you’d have identical speakers all the way around, although most people find that may take up more space than they’re willing to give up to the system.  However, to finally get to the point, since subs don’t cover the same frequency range as the speakers, timbre matching is not a factor.  You can mix and match brands and models, as long as you try to match their characteristics, like speed and low distortion in the case of Klipsch speakers, especially Heritage Series models.

 

[JohnCarney]

Thanks Islander.  Appreciate the detailed advice!  I'll get a SPL and map out the frequency response at my listening position.  Also enjoyed the explanation of the roll off in both directions (speaker & subwoofer).

[Islander]

The SPL meter and test CD (or DVD) can also help you find the best position for your speakers.  La Scalas like to be near a wall, like most Heritage speakers, but sometimes shifting them an inch or two nearer to or farther from the wall will give more even bass response.

 

BTW, those AL5s are pretty good looking speakers, and I’m sure they sound great, too.  You’re a lucky dude!

[JohnCarney]

11 minutes ago, Islander said:

BTW, those AL5s are pretty good looking speakers, and I’m sure they sound great, too.  You’re a lucky dude!

 

OMG, don't I know it!  I keep meaning to write up a review of the AL5s but it's so hard.  They are so damn astounding.  I find myself writing up a long list of superlatives but I can't quite convey exactly what makes them so amazing.

[Islander]

Read some hi-fi mags, and you’ll learn terms that sound like they’re describing wine, not audio components.  And then there’s PRaT (Pace, Rhythm, and Timing), which seems to be an English concept.  This refers to an audio component’s (speaker or electronics) ability to convey the full sense of the toe-tapping feel of the music.  Basically, if your speakers make your toes tap and your feet shuffle when playing energetic tunes, they’ve got PRaT!  This is a good thing, of course, but I don’t know how it could be designed in (or out).  Guess I should stick to enjoying speakers and leave the designing to the experts.

 

Review-wise, it could be best to listen and notice how your speakers break in and how you adjust to them over a while.  One happy owner of Jubilees did an extended review describing his first hundred days with them.  It was good reading.