Heresy Placement

[Deang]

Like most speakers, the Heresies respond very well to fiddling.

I've always heard that Heritage for the most part doesn't image all that well. While I was over at the Polk Forum some time back, the comments were basically, "Yeah, great speakers if you like "Left and Right".

I have no idea where this stuff comes from.

I've had the Heresies on the floor, with the risers -- to get some reinforcement for the bass. I've been trying not to use the sub, as I've always had some trouble getting the signature of the sub to integrate with the bass exhibited by tubes.

Last night I brought them up about 2 feet.

The Heresies are no longer for sale.

[HDBRbuilder]

Dean,

It appears you have found the right position for those Heresys in relation to your listening "ear level" and the room dynamics. LOL!

I have run into this with mine, too. It depends on my ear level, and the room dynamics whether they perform best right on the floor, OR higher up. Currently, where I am living, they are best on the floor, and this has been my general experience with them over the years. But I still have the speaker stands I built for them so many years ago, and whenever I change domiciles, I give em a try both ways, in various positioning out from the corners, before I make my decision of "up, OR down?"

In the "right" positioning, they can give some great performance!!

[Frzninvt]

I have my Heresy II's that I use as my rear speakers on end tables that places them about two feet off the ground and with the angled risers in place it places the rear soundstage nicely. Sometimes experimentation in placement and angles can go a long way.

[Deang]

Andy,

Any chance of getting a digital picture of those stands. Most stands available on the market don't have a large enough plate to accomodate the wide base of the Heresies with any stability. I did find a set that would work, but they cost close to $300. Needless to say, any extra money goes to Jeff for his Cornwalls -- so I need to be imaginative.

[edster00]

Dean,

I was going to comment earlier on your acquiring the Heresys but you had already decided to sell them before I got around to it!

Heresy's were my first Klipsch speaker...I've owned my pair since they were new in '77. I love these "little babies"!

Congratulations on finding the right spot for the Heresy's!

[Deang]

Pretty dramatic shift in the signature. They really did sound good on the floor, but now -- the cymbals sound like I have a drum kit sitting in front of me.

The Scott really complements these little boxes.

[HDBRbuilder]

Dean,

I will sketch out how my stands were built...and post it later in the day for you. They are extremely simple construction, and extremely strong...you can dance on em!! LOL! And the design is conducive to being modified for different heights. Materail cost, and labor is low...REAL LOW!! I used scrap at work, but the base and top can in any shape you want...and they can be made using nice solid wood, too...so they are more WAF-friendly.

[Parrot]

For several months, when I was transferring and editing a number of tapes onto CDRs, I used a pair of Heresy II as my computer speakers (running my Mia soundcard outs to my amp). I have a five foot wide desk, but that still put them pretty close to the monitor, although not enough to distort the picture. Anyway, the sound was great even as very nearfield monitors.

Like PWK said, 2/3 of a Klipschorn for 1/2 the price!

[Manuel Delaflor]

Deang,

I'm Happy to see you are enjoying them. Regarding imaging, I guess some people have different ideas on what is exactly that, other than that I can't imagine someone thinking the Heresy's don't image.

Anyway, I have mine at ears level, close to the corners but leaving about 15cm to each wall. I have choosed this location after lot of experimenting. As your room is dedicated (if I recall from a pic you posted) you don't have any problems in order to see which position works best for you.

I don't know if you already have posted it but I want to read your side to side impressions on both the Heresy and the RF7's.

Enjoy

[Deang]

Me wants the bigger lenses

I gotta get away from this system -- the one upstairs is starting to gather dust. Of course, the upside is that this will really extend tube life on the Apollos. Them KRs aint cheap.

I think part of it is simply because the basement is where the computer and my workroom are , and well -- now I can do three things at the same time. Last night I listened to the Beatles all night, cruised the Forum and did email, finished 4 of the 5 drivers on the DQ's, and finished the light sanding work on the bass bin. Ready to paint and prime.

Looking forward to the instructions for the stands Andy. Just what I need: another project! DQ-10's, Hesesy x-overs, Cornwall x-overs when they show up, and now stands to boot.

Manual, I've posted some general comments regarding the two in comparison. The Heresies are on the 'budget' system in the basement. Scott 299a & Marantz DV7010. The Marantz is really a pretty good deck, not on the same level as the 9000es -- but it did retail for $899 two years ago.

Here are some of my more recent comments:

"For now, I'll only say they sound very good, but will also say that many of you are unduly harsh regarding the Reference lineup. I really don't see the signatures between Heritage and Reference being all that substantially different. It's almost like the bumps and dips in the frequency response are just in different places, but other than that -- the Heresies and RF-7's have the same snappy midrange, and crisp, smooth highs. The RF-7's have it all over the little Heresies in dynamics -- but those Heresies really boogie."

"The RF-7's and Heresies have almost as much in common, as they don't have in common.

I do think the RF-7's need to be placed off to the side when discussing comparisons between Reference and Heritage. I mean, the driver/horn in the 7 is very different from the one used in the RB-5, RF-3, or RF-5. Kelly recently compared his Cornwalls to the RF-5, and really preferred the Cornwalls -- but the RF-5 is not the RF-7. Besides leo and myself, I don't think anyone here has driven the RF-7's with push-pull and/or SET. Leo's getting ready to build his Moondogs, and his future report will be very interesting indeed. At any rate, I think it much fairer to compare the Heresy to the RB-5, RF-3, or RF-5, as this is where it really falls.

Leo's (Leok) earlier posts comparing his Fortes to his RF-7's always left me feeling a bit confused. He claimed the Fortes were smoother on top, and the RF-7's were somewhat hotter, making them sound more 'live'. I always thought the complete opposite would be true. This comes from my general experience with three-ways compared to two-ways, along with my exposure to LaScalas and K-horns in the past. What I found is that Leo is right. The RF-7's ARE hotter than the Heresies. I'm sure this has mostly to do with the titanium driver in the RF-7. The RF-7's project a sense of immediacy, and though they may not have the hair trigger dynamics of the LaScala -- they do very well in their own right."

Observation by Audioreality that I thought was pretty good.

"Hello all,

Glad to hear it Dean.

isn't it nice when you discover something you really like.

I did an extensive a/b last night with my Jolida 202.

I switched back and forth betwen my RF7s and my Fortes.

Quite an experience.

Both sets completely opened up for me.

Smooth, liquidy top ends and deep, punchy bass.

I personally like the depth of the Fortes midrange, but the RF7 has it beat in dynamics. Hands down.

The Forte was much more involving.

Like a 5th row speaker.

The RF7 was portraying a sound reminisent of large concert stacks, yet wasn't fatiguing to listen to.

Definately more a front row speaker."

[JBryan]

On a lark, I picked up a pair of Heresy IIs the other week and hooked them up to see if they worked (they did). They sounded fine but the imagining and bass were a bit lacking so I went on about my business. I started to clean up the room and decided to place them on top of a pair of Cornwalls just to get them out of the way. The difference was not slight as they really began to sing and fill the room - lots of bass and a great image. Obviously they're placed too high and laying on their sides can't be optimal but I did surmise that those risers just aren't enough and stands would definitely be in order. My best guess would be to place the speakers with the top of the woofer at ear level - just seems right to me.

On anothef note, I had originally hoped to use the Heresys and Cornwalls in a HT system but the wife immediately nixed the idea and wants them out of sight. I quickly found a buyer for the Heresys but ironically, he wants to work a trade for a pr of La Scalas that his wife refuses to let in the house. He wanted me to drop by the church where they're being stored and take them home but he can't take the Heresys until after the holidays. I'd love to hear the LS in my system but how would I go about explaining it to my wife? As it is, my listening room has a pr of Khorns (which she likes - thank goodness) with the Cornwalls in front and the Heresys in front of the CW. My friend tells me I should put the LS on top of the Khorns but I don't know if that will fly. On the other hand, it took my wife a week to notice the Cornwalls and she works out in that room every other day. She must really love me to put up with all these tube amps and large speakers scattered about but I'm sure I'm nearing her "line of toleration" and the LS will certainly exceed it. What to do...

[Deang]

I'm pretty sure your significant other would notice Scalas sitting on top of the Klipschorns. I don't think you want do that anyway, I'm not sure you wouldn't compromise the structure of K-horns by loading 125lbs on them.

My idea of buying Cornwalls went over better than I expected, but then -- she really likes the sound of the Heresies.

[HDBRbuilder]

Just a suggestion re: LaScalas:

WAF: "You are NOT gonna put those big ugly things in MY house!"

Audiofool: "But honey, at least give them a listen!!"

WAF: "Ok, but JUST A LISTEN, then OUT THEY GO!!"

Audiofool: "Ok, honey, just a listen, then out they go..."

during/after the listen:

Audiofool: "Well, honey what do ya think?"

WAF: "Well, they really DO sound good, but they are still UGLY and I don't want them in MY HOUSE!"

Audiofool: "Well, honey, how about this? We keep them, but don't put them in the living room."

WAF: "If we don't leave them in the living room, then why keep them at all?"

Audiofool: "Well, baby, they ARE great sounding...even YOU admit that!!...and they would be fantastic for the patio parties and such we have in the warmer months out back...what do you think?"

WAF: "Well, ok...maybe...I'll think about it...let's listen to them again"

[JBryan]

LIVING ROOM!?

If I tried to put a pair of LS in the living room, she'd change the locks - at best! No, the only finish in the LR is mahogany...period. She gives me a lot of leeway in the basement (bless her) and that's where ALL my crap is. One afternoon few months ago, I had just picked up a pr of Cornwalls and put them in my car when she called my cell phone to let me know that she was heading home. I quickly calculated and figured that I had at best, 25 minutes. I sped home and husked those speakers into the house and downstairs to relative safety without another thought. I'm not a big guy and those speakers are heavy but the spectre of her walking in on me was motivation enough. She caught me once, driving up just as I was lifting a JBL L-300 out of my car. "Oh no you're not" and she just had that look...you know the one? I called a friend and within 3 hours, he was the proud owner. I never got to hear how they sounded in my system. It would have been sooner but my wife wanted dinner first. Oh well, didn't like them anyway... and she did let me have the Khorns.

[mobile homeless]

I guess I am lucky. My audio gear dominates my living room... My system has been the focus of my main living room since about 1984....no matter where I move. All my girlfriends have dug the whole thing including my wife. It actually looks appealing. And I am more concerned about aesthetics than she is, strangely enough. But then again, I have some neat looking gear.

kh

[HDBRbuilder]

Dean,

Attached is a sketch of how the cheapo, but strong stands I built for my Heresys go together. The construction is pretty simple.

As for the top panel, in your case you COULD remove the risers from your Heresys, then using the risers as drilling templates, screw the top panel to the bottom of your Heresys, from underneath that panel. This would secure the speaker to the stand....or you could just make a raised lip around it that holds the speaker snugly within its Inner perimeter...lots of options here.

As for the bottom panel, there are many options:

1. Just use a panel with some rubber feet or spikes or whatever attached to its bottom.

2. Make that bottom panel like a box, so that you can fill it with sand...etc...in order to make it less likely to ever get tipped over, and provide better mass for the stands.

One important note here: I did NOT provide the dimensions for the upper and lower panels, since the builder can get those measurements himself. The parts I GAVE dimensions for can be varied to suit your needs, The upright blocks of the the center assembly are only 3/4" X 3/4" in cross-section solid pine on my stands(which only have a total height of around 10.5"), but I would recommend using thicker stock for those verticals if you intend to make your stands taller than that. The horizontal pieces used are 3/4" plywood on mine, glued and stapled to the uprights, and the ones that make contact with the base and the upper panel are glued and nailed to it...how you assemble yours is up to you...as are the materials you choose to use...these can be built as basic or fancy as you want!! One other thing...if you go for the dimensions I gave for the horizontal pieces, be advised that you can increase the height of these stands by additional 6" increments by adding two more horizontal pieces to each side as you increase the height(and, of course increasing the height of the vertical uprights by the same 6" increments)....until you reach the total height you need, ie., from the 10.5" of mine as shown in the pic, to 16.5", then to 22.5"...and so on. But I highly recommend, that if you build these OVER the height of MINE, you make the base panel a sand-filled box!...in addition to securing the speaker bottoms to the upper panel in some way!

I have found that the "airiness" of this design allows for a pretty good amount of forward projection of reflected bass, etc, under the speakers when using these stands with Heresys in close proximity to a corner or wall.

After I built mine at the plant that day, and a few more pairs of em for some of the gals there, numerous other Heresy owners at the plant built identical ones for themselves...so, they must work out ok...mine sure did!

Hope this gives you some ideas!

[Deang]

Thanks Andy! Even looks like something I can't screw up. Perfect.

I wish you would change that signature of yours. I'm sure many here would agree that you are one of the more gifted and intelligent people that hang out here.

[HDBRbuilder]

Dean,

Thanks for the compliment, although it is a little bit much!! LOL!

I wish I knew how to do it on this BB, so that I could just throw my last post here somewhere where it may be of some help to others desiring a simple speaker stand for their Heresys!...BEFORE it becomes "lost in the shuffle" in this part of the forum!! LOL!

We really NEED some sort of easily referenced section here for little show & tell DIY projects, IMHO!! "Odds & mods" SHOULD be it, but it takes on alot more stuff than that, and the nature of this new BB format makes things really difficult (if not downright IMPOSSIBLE!!) to drag up later on!!

Maybe Justin can throw it on his site, or something!

[Tom Mobley]

Seconded.

Tom

[Deang]

We really need our own FAQ link here on 2-channel. Especially guidance type stuff for new folks.

I think Boa should head one up over in the HT section.

I like the 'odds and mods' section, as well as the 'updating older speakers' section. The trouble is, if I have a question or problem, I come here, because 'here' is where I 'know' people. I usually just 'lurk' at the other places, and sure don't post often. Sometimes I need the hardcore unadulterated truth with no B.S. -- then I got hunt down John Warren, James McCall, or Tom Brennan. No offence intended to others here -- but if you've ever read their posts, you know what I mean. Sometimes I just need a reality check.