Vintage vs new La Scalas

[yamahaSHO]

19 hours ago, paulgyro said:

Wow you sure have invested a lot into those old La Scalas!

 

Not really, I was able to sell off the stuff I took out. And when I bought some of this stuff, it was pre-covid pricing.  The A-4500's I have are like double or more than what I paid a few years ago.

[paulgyro]

1 hour ago, yamahaSHO said:

 

Not really, I was able to sell off the stuff I took out. And when I bought some of this stuff, it was pre-covid pricing.  The A-4500's I have are like double or more than what I paid a few years ago.

What do you think of those A-4500?

[yamahaSHO]

20 hours ago, paulgyro said:

What do you think of those A-4500?

 

 

They're very good, particularly at regular listening levels.  Once my house remodeling is done, I am going to install the CSW-450's and give them a try for a while and eventually decide which I like better and let go of the other.

[JMeader]

I went to the Dark Side and modified perfectly good 1987 La Scala's, well they were butt ugly bar speakers with massive scars, different tweeters and a one torn woofer.  But even under those conditions they still sounded great. The sound was very Live -but not refined

 

Why change from original- I think the changes Klipsch has made over 40 years make sense and has refined the sound of the original PA Speakers.

 

I added 1/2 inch MDF to all sides for more mass just like the new La Scalas'

 

I went with all new drivers from Crites including their A4500 cross over - personal choice,  many other options are available - if you choose a path make sure they work together.

 

What I would do differently. One I would mount the tweeter on separate board and put it on top of the squaker area and at the back so drivers are in timing sync. I would also mount the squaker on front of the motor board not behind it as old La Scalal's did. I am also part of the crowd that uses a sub woofer with La Scala's. Place sub so its driver is in line with the back of the La Scala, why because the woofer fires backwards and the sound come from the back wall of the folded horn design. Once again driver syncing.

 

System synergy is really important - results are definitely a sum of the parts.

 

I enjoy my Dark Side La Scala's, sound stage is amazing, sound is amazing puts a smile on my face and gets a Wow from those a hear it for the first time.

 

BTW I went with a low watt Decware Torrii Jr V2 as an amp with a MiniDSP SHD for everything else

 

As long as you are enjoy the music who really cares

[svberger]

On 2/5/2022 at 8:54 AM, svberger said:

The only "mods" I did to my highly enjoyable '77's was to disable the tweeter protection diodes which helps eliminate distortion and provided a pretty dramatic positive change,  and, removed the magnetic screw that's part of the  245 uH air core inductor in the left back of the crossover  that is part of the tweeter circuit.  Per Bob Crites "for some reason, at the factory, they sometimes used a regular steel screw in these inductors.  Should be a non-magnetic screw or the inductance will not be the specified 245 uH but instead will be around 350 uH.   You can check the screw with a magnet.  If it is attracted to a magnet, it is wrong and should be replaced." Thanks to @KT88 for alerting me to both of these useful tips. Other then that, had no need to do anything else. I've owned/listened to a lot of speakers over the last 50+ years and the LS's are right up there with the best of them. Driving mine with a McIntosh MC240 and I can listen all day long.

An update to this post. Over the last year, I bought two of Dean's X/O's: Type A's with Jupiter Flat Stack caps, and his Universal. After swapping them around for a few months, I've decided I prefer the Type A's. The La Scala's are against my front wall, and I feel no need for any additional bass that Universal might provide. And the sound with those wonderful caps is much more natural and closer to the sound of the  AA's described above that I really liked. And that will end any attempt of further mods for the LS's. They're perfect for me, and contrast nicely with my other speakers which presently are all acoustic suspension's.

[KT88]

On 4/18/2023 at 5:24 AM, JMeader said:

I went to the Dark Side and modified perfectly good 1987 La Scala's, well they were butt ugly bar speakers with massive scars, different tweeters and a one torn woofer.  But even under those conditions they still sounded great. The sound was very Live -but not refined

 

Why change from original- I think the changes Klipsch has made over 40 years make sense and has refined the sound of the original PA Speakers.

 

I added 1/2 inch MDF to all sides for more mass just like the new La Scalas'

 

I went with all new drivers from Crites including their A4500 cross over - personal choice,  many other options are available - if you choose a path make sure they work together.

 

What I would do differently. One I would mount the tweeter on separate board and put it on top of the squaker area and at the back so drivers are in timing sync. I would also mount the squaker on front of the motor board not behind it as old La Scalal's did. I am also part of the crowd that uses a sub woofer with La Scala's. Place sub so its driver is in line with the back of the La Scala, why because the woofer fires backwards and the sound come from the back wall of the folded horn design. Once again driver syncing.

 

System synergy is really important - results are definitely a sum of the parts.

 

I enjoy my Dark Side La Scala's, sound stage is amazing, sound is amazing puts a smile on my face and gets a Wow from those a hear it for the first time.

 

BTW I went with a low watt Decware Torrii Jr V2 as an amp with a MiniDSP SHD for everything else

 

As long as you are enjoy the music who really cares

 

The topic has already been discussed here a few times. If I were you, I would do it like this: Leave your Vintage LaScala completely original. If you want to remove the tweeter in this way for a separate baffle (this way your LaScala remains absolutely original, you can reinstall the tweeter later at any time). Then I would do it the way it is intended for the T35/K77 by EV, the manufacturer.
The K77 is a diffraction horn!  It must be installed vertically for the best horizontal dispersion. Klipsch has installed it horizontally for lack of space, this is also ok (as stated in the data sheet paper which I have added here) but not perfect, The instructions apply to alnico and ferrite versions, because they only have something to do with the horn guide, not the magnetic material.
And because the K77 is a diffraction horn, it must be screwed to the baffle from behind. This is essential for a good result! however, EV recommends that the thickness of the baffle is much less than in a LaScala to achieve the best result. In the end, you have less frying ham sound and a slightly more spatial imaging when installed vertically from behind on the right small baffle.
The desired physical effect is similar to the "diffraction at the gap" wave theory, hence the vertical installation. I know it sounds counterintuitive but it is so.

 

 

 

T35A EV Spec Sheet.pdf

[Marvel]

11 minutes ago, KT88 said:

And because the K77 is a diffraction horn, it must be screwed to the baffle from behind. This is essential for a good result! however, EV recommends that the thickness of the baffle is much less than in a LaScala to achieve the best result.

I disagree... The diffraction comes from the horn, not by rear mounting.

 

The problem for users is taking the driver off the horn and being able to re-attach after putting the horn throat through the baffle. (Ideal to have recessed the thickness of the flange.)

 

This is why the newer tweeters first had the Z brackets and later the mounting flange moved back on the horn.

[KT88]

17 minutes ago, Marvel said:

I disagree... The diffraction comes from the horn, not by rear mounting.

 

The problem for users is taking the driver off the horn and being able to re-attach after putting the horn throat through the baffle. (Ideal to have recessed the thickness of the flange.)

 

This is why the newer tweeters first had the Z brackets and later the mounting flange moved back on the horn.

 

Ok, then I don't know why EV recommends it the way they do. After all, when removing the horn, someone has the freedom to listen to the horn in vertical and horizontal orientation comparatively. I've also seen installations of the T35 without a baffle at all, but then I would suspect that the sound pressure might drop off at the lower crossover frequency. 

Marvel, thank you for your objection, I am writing to help others and not to be necessarily right.

[Marvel]

I think (!) EV recommends setting in from the back, because of the difficulty most would have in putting the driver back on the horn without damaging it. Especially in the top of a La Scala cabinet.

 

Surely not an argument. I just went in a different direction, with a larger tweeter horn on a baffle on top, moved to the rear of the cabinet.

[JohnA]

2 hours ago, KT88 said:

 

Ok, then I don't know why EV recommends it the way they do. After all, when removing the horn, someone has the freedom to listen to the horn in vertical and horizontal orientation comparatively. I've also seen installations of the T35 without a baffle at all, but then I would suspect that the sound pressure might drop off at the lower crossover frequency. 

Marvel, thank you for your objection, I am writing to help others and not to be necessarily right.

 

If you look at earlier E-V data sheets, you'll find a dispersion graph.  Though you are correct that the T-35 is a diffraction horn, it's dispersion is wider above 6k Hz with mounted horizontally.