Teach me Something about Specs

[rplace]

I'm able to AB two DACs with the push of a button. I have a suspicion that the difference I hear is due to a slight Gain or for lack of a better term, "difference in loudness" between the two. I'm not very well versed with differences in loudness beyond Gain, and I can't find any specs on Gain. Not even sure if that is typically noted besides on preamps, again these are two DACs. Can someone tell me if these specs, below,  impact the perceived loud/quiet of a device and if so which one should present a louder signal? If none of these below and Gain is not available, what other specs could impact the slight difference in loudness?

 

I don't want to tell you which one I think is louder until I know about which one based on specs should...or if there shouldn't be a difference based on this info.

 

Thanks

 

#1

Analog Output 	
	RCA at 2.2Vrms, 625 Ω 
	XLR at 4.4Vrms, 1250 Ω 
Power Consumption 	≤20W 
Frequency Response 	20-40KHz -0.2dB 
THD+N 	0.0010% 
S/N Ratio 	127dB 
Dynamic Range 	>132dB 
Stereo Crosstalk 	-110dB 

 

 

 #2

Analog Output
	RCA at 2.0Vrms, 625 Ω 
 	XLR at 4.0Vrms, 1250 Ω
Power Consumption 	≤20W 
Frequency Response 	20-70KHz -3dB 
THD+N 	0.0020% 
S/N Ratio 	120dB 
Dynamic Range 	>121dB 
Stereo Crosstalk 	-110dB 

 

[wuzzzer]

With the higher Vrms and dynamic range I would think #1 would play louder.

[Schu]

132db to 120db

[babadono]

Are these both at 24 bit quantization? If the source file makes use of the entire dynamic range than I would tend to believe the one with the slightly higher voltage output would be slightly louder.

[babadono]

Curious when you say at the push of a switch are you switching the actual outputs into the same input or are you switching inputs?

[rplace]

4 minutes ago, babadono said:

Are these both at 24 bit quantization?

 

I don't have the brain/smarts/vocabulary to answer that. Not sure what  you are asking

 

1 minute ago, babadono said:

Curious when you say at the push of a switch are you switching the actual outputs into the same input or are you switching inputs?

 

Preamp has 3 balanced (XLR) inputs. Each DAC connected via XLR to input 1 and 2. Preamp remote selects 1 or 2 as I desire. My streamer can output to both DACs at the same time in the same way while playing the exact same track at the same time.

 

It does not seem to matter if I play FLAC 16/44, 24/96, 24/192 or DSD 64 to 256 files the one always sounds just slightly "better" but I suspect it is really a slight difference in volume.

[babadono]

Ok so it could be a combination of slightly different output levels from the DACs AND slightly different input gains on the pre amp input channels. In a perfect world the inputs would be the same. But there are parts tolerances in our imperfect world. Curious does the DAC you perceive as louder change if you swap the inputs at the pre amp?

The 24 bit question refers to the first number in the type of files you mention above. It would be interesting to know from the specs you posted what quantization was used.

It can't be 16  bit because the maximum S/N ratio at 16 bit(Redbook CD quality) is 96dB.

[jcn3]

#1 should be louder since output is 4.4v rms vs 4.0v rms on #2 via XLR.

[rplace]

43 minutes ago, babadono said:

Ok so it could be a combination of slightly different output levels from the DACs AND slightly different input gains on the pre amp input channels. In a perfect world the inputs would be the same. But there are parts tolerances in our imperfect world. Curious does the DAC you perceive as louder change if you swap the inputs at the pre amp?

The 24 bit question refers to the first number in the type of files you mention above. It would be interesting to know from the specs you posted what quantization was used.

It can't be 16  bit because the maximum S/N ratio at 16 bit(Redbook CD quality) is 96dB.

 

I've switched them, that is connected the DACs to the opposite inputs. 1 to 2 and 2 to 1...so don't think it is the preamp channel.

 

To be clear I don't really perceive it as louder, initially I liked it better. But the difference is so slight I'm starting to think it is a loudness differences, not actually an improvement or even a difference. I think most would agree that all things being equal you will typically "think" the louder one is better. Thinking it might be louder got me to wondering what would account for differences. Thus my post. Obviously a few differences on paper but very close. Same manufacturer, just two different DACs in their lineup.

 

Seems entirely possible that as you move up any companies food chain they would up the output to stack the deck in their favor of more $$$ sounding "better". No?

[jcn3]

2 minutes ago, rplace said:

 

I've switched them, that is connected the DACs to the opposite inputs. 1 to 2 and 2 to 1...so don't think it is the preamp channel.

 

To be clear I don't really perceive it as louder, initially I liked it better. But the difference is so slight I'm starting to think it is a loudness differences, not actually an improvement or even a difference. I think most would agree that all things being equal you will typically "think" the louder one is better. Thinking it might be louder got me to wondering what would account for differences. Thus my post. Obviously a few differences on paper but very close. Same manufacturer, just two different DACs in their lineup.

 

Seems entirely possible that as you move up any companies food chain they would up the output to stack the deck in their favor of more $$$ sounding "better". No?

 

i would think #1 might sound better as it has a higher signal/noise ratio and higher dynamic range (i.e. these might create a "blacker" background).

[rplace]

26 minutes ago, jcn3 said:

 

i would think #1 might sound better as it has a higher signal/noise ratio and higher dynamic range (i.e. these might create a "blacker" background).

 

When I switch form 2 to 1 I feel like the sound stage is a tiny bit wider and deeper, possibly a blacker background...but both are so close. When I go from 1 to 2 I don't feel like anything changes. It is only going from 2 to 1 that is seems like there is an ever so slight improvement. If I listen to either one for any length of time I can easily forget which one. I believe, If I were to leave the room and somebody else change it I could NEVER tell a difference walking back in.