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Restoration Project Klipsch KG 3.5 (KM 4) worth to do ?


MicroMara

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1 hour ago, MicroMara said:

That sounds great to me , I listened to your video via headphone ! You´ve changed the caps allready as far as I understood , kindly let me know which manufacturer you´ve choosen . You ´ve changed the caps in the low and high pass together ? Changing the diafragms as well to titanium ? Great Gear btw .

Hi,

  The mod is not yet done. Not yet but I will do it in the weekend. I want to control the highs and mid range first before I change the caps.  

Ive done this mod in another Klipsch R-610F running on a 300b amp and tested using 5 watts driving the speakers. There is a video using a cell phone and another one with a tascam handheld recorder.  

The tascam recorder is much clearer but I dont have a video of it. I want to do the same mod in the kg-3.5 so I can bring out the bass more and control midrange. Then I will add a new capacitor. A possibility of a mundorf or solen should be okay. But I will let you know which way and value early next week. I will send you a video soon.

By the way, the Lpad setting on the modded R-610F is a little past 1 o' clock. Anything beyond that for my hearing is like "in your face". Its probably has something to do with my amp. 

Edited:

As I listen to both, the KG-3.5 is very balanced and rich in surround bass...?

I'm going to record the same song, using the same amp and setup with the 2 different speakers and let you hear it next week. 

 

image.jpeg.4a681a71df304ce977fe0739f1bd7b14.jpeg

 

 

 

image.thumb.jpeg.057efba365206c24e402620794f2ef42.jpeg

Edited by CCG
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sorry can´t listen to the other two audio recordings as I´m not a member there. You may consider to use jantzen superior caps instead of Mundorf . I used these for my RF7 Evo´s , they´re absolute natural in the midrange , brilliance and hights, clear like a violine.  The only problem I see is the size of the jantzen caps on this little board . However tastes are different . Looking forward to your further works in here .

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57 minutes ago, MicroMara said:

sorry can´t listen to the other two audio recordings as I´m not a member there. You may consider to use jantzen caps instead of Mundorf . I used these for my RF7 Evo´s , they´re absolute natural in the midrange , brilliance and hights, clear like a violine.  The only problem I see is the size of the jantzen caps on this little board . However tastes are different . Looking forward to your further works in here .

Okay and thank you for the info. I will use the Jantzen instead as soon I figure out the value I need after the Lpad mod. I was able to upload this video of the 300b and R-610F at the rumble in case you want to hear it.

Good evening.

Edited by CCG
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The L-Pad solution is fine , used by Quadral in the 1980´s .There is an another option possible to lower the level of the HT's , but would like to preserve the original sound signature .The following should be noted ...


You have to make sure that the total impedance, with which the crossover is loaded, does not change with resistors connected in front. If you solder a resistor of 4.7 ohms in front of an 8-ohm speaker, the crossover would have a load of 12.7 ohms and would no longer separate correctly. Therefore, one must always work with two resistors, namely a series resistor and a parallel resistor. They are dimensioned so that the nominal impedance (e.g. 8 ohms) is maintained at the crossover.

 

752646923_X-OverKM42.thumb.jpg.fb3dc7d3bc4c9d10e438c17604e3d1d5.jpg

 

 

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8 hours ago, CCG said:

Okay and thank you for the info. I will use the Jantzen instead as soon I figure out the value I need after the Lpad mod. I was able to upload this video of the 300b and R-610F at the rumble in case you want to hear it.

Good evening.

HA HA ...R2R & Dire Straits & 300B ..can´t be better 🤩

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6 hours ago, MicroMara said:

 

The L-Pad solution is fine , used by Quadral in the 1980´s .There is an another option possible to lower the level of the HT's , but would like to preserve the original sound signature .The following should be noted ...


You have to make sure that the total impedance, with which the crossover is loaded, does not change with resistors connected in front. If you solder a resistor of 4.7 ohms in front of an 8-ohm speaker, the crossover would have a load of 12.7 ohms and would no longer separate correctly. Therefore, one must always work with two resistors, namely a series resistor and a parallel resistor. They are dimensioned so that the nominal impedance (e.g. 8 ohms) is maintained at the crossover.

 

752646923_X-OverKM42.thumb.jpg.fb3dc7d3bc4c9d10e438c17604e3d1d5.jpg

 

 

I couldn't find a 24uf  / 100v bi-polar electrolytic capacitor. Can I use a polypropylene capacitor?

Thanks. CCG

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4 hours ago, CCG said:

I couldn't find a 24uf  / 100v bi-polar electrolytic capacitor. Can I use a polypropylene capacitor?

Thanks. CCG

😂 I know ! Had the same problem , the solution can be 20uf bi polar and 4uf bipolar Elco bypass on the backside from the x-over board , I need to have a look as well as I want to continue with the x-over mod as well. The old Elcos are good so far, so there isn´t a real need to change them. Same for the 4 &8 uF in the high pass .

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I checked that , even the above proposed will be difficult , the only solution is : Nichicon UES1H220MPM Elco bipolar MUSE 22uF 50V 10x12,5mm RM5 85° and 2 Nichicon UES1H010MDM Elco bipolar "MUSE" 1uF 50V 5x12,5mm RM2 85 °

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5 hours ago, CCG said:

I couldn't find a 24uf  / 100v bi-polar electrolytic capacitor. Can I use a polypropylene capacitor?

Thanks. CCG

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Rubycon/100NA22MEFC10X12.5?qs=T3oQrply3y8Hzo43umkf%2Fw%3D%3D

 

Close enough in my world. That or make you own non-polar with two of these. https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UVR2A470MPD?qs=JKvaGoKVme%2BftB%2FxL4buUg%3D%3D

 

Google how to make non-polar electrolytic capacitor from two capacitors. Not hard. 

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3 hours ago, MicroMara said:

😂 I know ! Had the same problem , the solution can be 20uf bi polar and 4uf bipolar Elco bypass on the backside from the x-over board , I need to have a look as well as I want to continue with the x-over mod as well. The old Elcos are good so far, so there isn´t a real need to change them. Same for the 4 &8 uF in the high pass .

I got something close which is 25uf/100v on axial better than nothing.. Its in Madison speakers.

 

Edited by CCG
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2 hours ago, henry4841 said:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Rubycon/100NA22MEFC10X12.5?qs=T3oQrply3y8Hzo43umkf%2Fw%3D%3D

 

Close enough in my world. That or make you own non-polar with two of these. https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UVR2A470MPD?qs=JKvaGoKVme%2BftB%2FxL4buUg%3D%3D

 

Google how to make non-polar electrolytic capacitor from two capacitors. Not hard. 

there is one avaialble at madison speakers 25uf/100v bipolar "axial" which is  close enough.

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9 minutes ago, CCG said:

there is one avaialble at madison speakers 25uf/100v bipolar "axial" which is  close enough.

what you don´t know is that I´m living on the other side from the atlantic , I´m german 😉 so I need another solution, I think I´m going to solder the 22 uf bi-polar Nichicons and will bypass two 1 uF bipolar Nichicons on the backside from the board, got enough soldering experience . What´s your choice for the 4 & 8 uF Highpass caps, any decisions done ?

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35 minutes ago, MicroMara said:

what you don´t know is that I´m living on the other side from the atlantic , I´m german 😉 so I need another solution, I think I´m going to solder the 22 uf bi-polar Nichicons and will bypass two 1 uF bipolar Nichicons on the backside from the board, got enough soldering experience . What´s your choice for the 4 & 8 uF Highpass caps, any decisions done ?

If I only know you need the 24uf (actually I got 25), I could have got you a pair and snail mail it to you. Its on madison speakers Link. This capacitor is really important for the tweeters life relies in it. I can always upgrade it if I find something better.

Not yet on the 4 & 8 . I want to test it first and see if I need to adjust something before I buy the correct value.

 

photo of capacitor

 

Edited by CCG
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53 minutes ago, CCG said:

there is one avaialble at madison speakers 25uf/100v bipolar "axial" which is  close enough.

dont waste your Money  ,  it is crucial to install   klipsch Capacitors   in your original  Crossovers , or you will not  have the correct sound ,   my advice would be not to replace the capacitors if you are going to use aftermarkets .  leave it as-is 

 

 

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1 hour ago, OO1 said:

dont waste your Money  ,  it is crucial to install   klipsch Capacitors   in your original  Crossovers , or you will not  have the correct sound ,   my advice would be not to replace the capacitors if you are going to use aftermarkets .  leave it as-is 

 

 

I don't want the tweeters to blow-up since the caps are from the 90's. There is a sound that I'm after for and I want modify the tone section. Please follow-up with them that they atlease need to design another "single 8 inch tower" speaker for high fidelity. Its been a while and some users don't like dual 8 towers and single 8 bookshelves.

If they do this, I will buy the new one because I know the cabinet will be bigger and has a better back flange porting. I actually have a R-610F after a few mod, I was able to use it in my 300b amp very rich and soft.

Thank you.. CCG

Edited by CCG
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@CCG  I agree on what you´ve mentioned above , I found out that it becomes difficult to get the matched values for the 4 & 8 uF caps as well , especially from Jantzen , close to values are available ..however we got time and patience.

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8 hours ago, CCG said:

If I only know you need the 24uf (actually I got 25), I could have got you a pair and snail mail it to you. Its on madison speakers Link. This capacitor is really important for the tweeters life relies in it. I can always upgrade it if I find something better.

Not yet on the 4 & 8 . I want to test it first and see if I need to adjust something before I buy the correct value.

 

photo of capacitor

 

Well , the horizontal design is not optimal for the board , the vertical one is better just in relation to the existing holes in the board layout

 

nichicon.jpg.c2003dcd77d7faa6ff2d298365edad24.jpg

 

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@CCG

 

Prices for good caps increased here to nonsense levels 🤔 I checked out Audyne , Mundorf, Jantzen . Had a look at russian Pio`s as well , very difficult to get here . So I´ve decided to go for Jantzen Caps again, price-quality is still fair enough .

 

For the 4 uF replacement I´ve choosen a by pass solution as well , jantzen superior 3,3 uF & 0,68 uf = 3,98 , for the 8 uF replacement I will take a 8,2 uF . The only problem I see with the 8,2 uF is the size approx 2,2 inch

 

158714502_jantzencaps1.jpg.84e96edc0dc8982122a533f4498adc33.jpg

 

Here you can see how to by pass the caps as example

 

bypass.jpg.d356bd5e90c21f6ce377e1fc8c4e04b5.jpg

 

If I work on the board anyway I will change the 3R 5W Resistor as well . I´ve choosen a Mundorf Copper Nickel 3,3 R 10 Watt

 

Mundorf1.jpg.c9769ab50352bcdc2e3486305916ea01.jpg

 

Just my first thoughts on the x-over mod. I won´t change the coils as I measured them in october 2022 last time, they´re fine and w/in the values 

 

P.S two hours later .....No , I find out that the board is to small for all these Janzen caps , this only works with a direct wired x-over concept on a completely new board . The X-Over board must be fixed on the base plate of the KM 3.5 

 

Here is an example ....

 

 

1632130118_XOverRP8000.jpg.4cac3284e9a20e26dc4d0d2888d51915.jpg

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On 1/6/2023 at 12:57 PM, MicroMara said:

@CCG

 

Prices for good caps increased here to nonsense levels 🤔 I checked out Audyne , Mundorf, Jantzen . Had a look at russian Pio`s as well , very difficult to get here . So I´ve decided to go for Jantzen Caps again, price-quality is still fair enough .

 

For the 4 uF replacement I´ve choosen a by pass solution as well , jantzen superior 3,3 uF & 0,68 uf = 3,98 , for the 8 uF replacement I will take a 8,2 uF . The only problem I see with the 8,2 uF is the size approx 2,2 inch

 

158714502_jantzencaps1.jpg.84e96edc0dc8982122a533f4498adc33.jpg

 

Here you can see how to by pass the caps as example

 

bypass.jpg.d356bd5e90c21f6ce377e1fc8c4e04b5.jpg

 

If I work on the board anyway I will change the 3R 5W Resistor as well . I´ve choosen a Mundorf Copper Nickel 3,3 R 10 Watt

 

Mundorf1.jpg.c9769ab50352bcdc2e3486305916ea01.jpg

 

Just my first thoughts on the x-over mod. I won´t change the coils as I measured them in october 2022 last time, they´re fine and w/in the values 

 

P.S two hours later .....No , I find out that the board is to small for all these Janzen caps , this only works with a direct wired x-over concept on a completely new board . The X-Over board must be fixed on the base plate of the KM 3.5 

 

Here is an example ....

 

 

1632130118_XOverRP8000.jpg.4cac3284e9a20e26dc4d0d2888d51915.jpg

Very Nice... I'd do the same too in getting the 5 watt resistor. 

I got the Lpad in and 25uf and testing it out. I wanna get the PP 4 and 8uf this week and probably look for a good video recorder. I have a tascam hand held but it just a voice recorder with no video. Using the iphone, I cant tell if I'm over modulating in recording. Will get back soon.

Thanks, CCG

   

Edited by CCG
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38 minutes ago, CCG said:

Very Nice... I'd do the same too in getting the 5 watt resistor. 

I got the Lpad in and 25uf and testing it out. I wanna get the PP 4 and 8uf this week and probably look for a good video recorder. I have a tascam hand held but it just a voice recorder with no video. Using the iphone, I cant tell if I'm over modulating in recording which sounds like this video is...

Test 01-09-2023 KG-3.5 mid tower speaker.

[IMG]

   

 

I know that tune as well , heard it with my Meeze Classic 99 Headphones, seems to be well balanced with a quiet deep and fast bass response, thought that the upper midrange sounds a bit too undersized and the treble a bit too sharp. But of course you can judge better . Im too far away 😂

 

Once again I made my thought on furter investments for the KG3.5. If I will do it like I wrote Friday , it really makes the mod quite expensive , the investment should be in relation to the value from the speaker . I allready invested close to 150 € into the cabinet, wireings etc.

 

So I decided to change the 24 uF ( 1 x 22 uf & 2 x 1 uF )  with Nichicon Muse bi polar as allready mentioned , the copper nickel resistor as well.  Do you get origin JEM caps 4 & 8 uF ? Or what is in your mind ? I still haven´t found  little sized caps for this little board

 

Best reagrds

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