K402 Horn Puzzler Help

[Westerml]

I recently picked up a pair of Klipsch KPT 942/4’s with K402 horns. I am using them with LaScala bass bins and a Yorkville folded horn sub. It sounds pretty good.

 

My puzzler is regarding the driver. The guy who sold them to me believes they are the stock driver but there is no label anywhere. He also (as part of the deal) threw in a pair of, B&C DE750TN-8’s. The original drivers on the horn are attached with an adapter that goes from a 3 bolt Phillips pattern (at the driver) to a 4 bolt/stud and not attachment to the horn. The adapter is about 4” long. The adapter obviously changes the throat length of the horn. I would think not good. 

 

Anyone ever seen this? Pictures attached. Every other picture I see of K402’s shows the driver mated directly to the horn with no adapter.

 

Thanks for any feedback. Mike

[The Dude]

That is correct. It's a mid driver K1133. It could be a 1132, but I'm not sure what was correct for the 2-way version of your speaker. @chiefbonehead

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[The Dude]

This thread might help

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/191956-difference-between-1132-and-1133-drivers/

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[Westerml]

First and foremost. THANKS! Makes sense this may be an 1132/3 based on where I think they came from. So you think that adapter was original? Seems odd when I see all the drivers mated without. A bit of a Frankenstein. Maybe the 3-bolt pattern governed and it was cheaper to design around adapter. They sound pretty good but I expect based on what I learn I have not tapped the full potential of my, K402’s.

 

My system is getting there with the help of you and others. Next step for me is sorting out the best driver for my, K402’s. My setup is a flipped over Lascala ( not going to cut them up; but they are beat up ); K402’s on top; Yorkville UCS1P (crossed at 50hz). Currently using my DBX for XO/DSP because I know it and use for band/PA work but got an older XILICA XD8080 in my deal I will use if it still works.

 

Any thoughts/ideas/direction on drivers and PEQ/XO, appreciated. I picked up an older post on settings for a JubiScala and using these for now. Interesting with different XO points for horn and bass bin (420/470) and 24 slope and some PEQ settings on input and output. Apparently Roy D came up with these playing around with test using Lascala bass bins with K402. Not even sure my drivers can go to 470hz but they have not cooked and it sounds pretty good. Have not plotted yet. i have started with REW but just can’t seem to get consistent results on output data. Really respect what many are doing with plots. It’s not easy. It may be a calibration issue with my DBX mic but not sure. Much work to do here…and to little time. I am going to search site first but may start a topic on this since it’s pretty explicit. 

 

In my deal I also received a pair of B&C DE750TN-8’s that appear to mount without adapter. Step up? I hear maybe a bit fatiguing but have not tried. End game for now appears to be, Celestion or TAD’s.

 

Side Note: my B&C drivers did not have any studs/washers/nuts for mounting. I sent B&C an email to them and Gail jumped right on it and is sending me a replacement set no charge including shipping. Pretty cool to experience customer service like this.

 

Thanks again for the help, Mike

[KT88]

When my then new Underground Jubilees were delivered 14 years ago, K1132 (or 1133?) was accidentally connected to the K402 instead of the intended K69 driver. Of course I got a replacement pair of  K69. In my memory the K1132/3 play very well in the low frequencies, very powerful and physical. I had pre dialed the setting for the K69, so totally wrong for the 1132 so it sounded shrill. But I can't imagine that a K1132/3 can do anyway very good and silky highs. My TAD4002 are again on a different level in the treble than the K69. But the 1132/3 has more energy at the low crossover frequency than the K69 or TAD4002. But in the long run it is much less tiring to listen to K69 or TAD4002...even if my setting was not made for K1132/3 I would say that. May be the K1132/3 is a good match when running with a separate tweeter horn? But then one would loose the magic of the two way point source imagination. At least I would try a different driver for the K402 than the K1133 when it is a two way system. Better to have smooth treble than a tad more energy at 500 Hz in my view.

[Westerml]

Thanks, KT88 and interesting. I was told my setup which includes the big (4) 15 bass cabinet came with the K1132/3 like it says in the brochure for THX Cinema offering. Seems to track consistently. Except for the adapter/extension. 
 

I am running 2-way (and will stay 2-way) with K1132 crossed at 470hz. A driver change will happen and love the TAD forum feedback for sure. I do like the Axi2050 ability to go lower as the LaScala bin does not sound great run up high, IMO, but know others may disagree.

 

Any thoughts on the adapter? And it’s length taking the driver away from horn entry point? Which was apparently used on my set-up to go from 3-bolt (driver side) to 4-bolt (horn side). Also, whoever did this had to carve out the adapter to fit within the stand bracket. Why they didn’t just flip the holding plate around I’m not sure. Maybe it hits the horn and have not tried.

 

My first step may be to try my DE750TN-8’s mounted without the adapter and see how they sound. With the end game of TAD or Axi2050.
 

My gaps due to my current abilities and inconsistencies with, REW is to hopefully find XO/PEQ/Time Alignment settings for DE750TN’s and Axi2050’s ideally using Lascala bass bin crossed over lower based on an LR24 for now unless someone thinks differently based on experience. I did see that Chris A is using different slopes with his set up. Which is obviously a good set up.

 

Thanks much… looking forward to capturing my experience and feeding it back to the forum for others.

 

Mike

[The Dude]

The snout is correct, it may be taking a 1 1/4" driver to 2", I can't remember.  If you wanted to try the B&C (which you already have in your hands), remove the current driver and snout and bolt the B&C directly to it. Tweak your settings as you currently are. 

 

KT88 has provided some great input and you are on the right path; it just takes time and tweaking.  For the money and availability, I would shoot for the Celestions as that is the latest and greatest Klipsch is now using on the K402s.   If you didn't want to spring for the Celestions as this time, I would consider the Faital PRO HF200 or similar, they are great driver and sounded great on other horns I have experimented with.   

[Westerml]

Got it..thanks for re-stating the obvious  I did not measure the driver exit but you (and DaveA) are spot on. I just reviewed the cut on K1132 which is what I have. It’s not a 2” so it’s a flare to meet the horn. The good news is it was intended for the “2-way” application. Maybe limited with response and compared to other drivers but sound pretty decent. Significantly better than anything I have used (K401, 511b) which ain’t tough competition for the K402. Even with it being crossed at 470 (below recommend low point). Thanks for Faital tip.. probably save up for the Celestions. 

[KT88]

2 hours ago, The Dude said:

The snout is correct, it may be taking a 1 1/4" driver to 2", I can't remember.  If you wanted to try the B&C (which you already have in your hands), remove the current driver and snout and bolt the B&C directly to it. Tweak your settings as you currently are. 

 

KT88 has provided some great input and you are on the right path; it just takes time and tweaking.  For the money and availability, I would shoot for the Celestions as that is the latest and greatest Klipsch is now using on the K402s.   If you didn't want to spring for the Celestions as this time, I would consider the Faital PRO HF200 or similar, they are great driver and sounded great on other horns I have experimented with.   

 

I also have the Faital HF200 using in a passive set up with a BC crossover (Roy did publish the bass part of this xover). Even if the TAD 4002 is a fantastic driver the draw back is its high frequency beaming a bit. It‘s adapter from 1.5“ to 2“  is quite long and more matching with an exponential horn. Nevertheless it sounds quite good. The Faital HF200 also uses an adapter for the 2“ mounting but it seems to fit much better with the K402 regarding the wider opening angle of it‘s adapter. I do not have the data for a possible active use of the HF200. It sounds passively good but it is not the league of the TAD regarding the very clear high freq. sounds, only its radiation pattern seems to be better, the music is less beamed.

 

TBH when paying so much money for good drivers I would first start to see if the radiation pattern for the higher frequencies is good enough, so perhaps today I would tend to chose the Celestion driver, or perhaps Roy makes a Christmas present to all TAD 4002 owners and creates his new second phase plug for us as well as the Jubilee Heritage owners😀

[Westerml]

Anyone have a K402 bolt pattern/opening template made from your horns. For driver side? I have to flip my driver mounting plate/bracket around to mount 4-bolt drivers without snout. With all the holes in the plate none line up with 4-bolt pattern when flipped over. Want it to be exact and trying to mark holes, etc. from underside is difficult. Easy enough to create one from my horns but figured I would check. Thanks

[The Dude]

On 12/18/2022 at 7:49 AM, Westerml said:

For driver side? I have to flip my driver mounting plate/bracket around to mount 4-bolt drivers without snout. With all the holes in the plate none line up with 4-bolt pattern when flipped over. Want it to be exact and trying to mark holes, etc. from underside is difficult. Easy enough to create one from my horns but figured I would check.

I do not and had to do the same thing. I used a socket that fit through the mouth of the horn to align driver.  

 

 

[Westerml]

Thanks. Good idea with the socket and thanks. Actually, a section of schedule 40 PVC works as well. Oddly the bracket hole is slightly large so centering this is a bit tough. How did you get at your holes to scribe? The 2 are easy but others are not a clear shot for marking due to horn flare blocking. Thanks again…

[The Dude]

1 minute ago, Westerml said:

How did you get at your holes to scribe? The 2 are easy but others are not a clear shot for marking due to horn flare blocking.

I might have been lucky as I don't recall having any issues.  

[Westerml]

I sure I’m over thinking it…. 

[Westerml]

Hey, The Dude (funny)…do you know if the K69 driver is 4 bolt or 3 like the K1132

[Coytee]

K69 is 4 bolt but, I'm not The Dude...

[OO1]

Left  K-69 ,  photo by @Coytee   but  I am  not   Coytee   

[Westerml]

Thank you very much. I am looking for some mounting plates for my K402’s to use 4 bolt drivers where the plate attachment flanges face toward the horn (and not toward the driver) and line up with the 4 bolt holes on my K402.

[Coytee]

I'm still having issues comprehending....  (my wife rolls her eyes about now at me....)

 

Flanges facing toward the horn verses driver....

 

Huh?

 

Am I missing it in the (your) pictures above?  I would think they fit one way and that's it.  I'm clearly missing something.

[babadono]

1 hour ago, Coytee said:

I'm clearly missing something.

That's the over thinking it part