peterbwreal Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 I recently purchased a set of Belles, which I am driving with a Hafler DH500 (255w/channel - I know, I know: overkill!) Partly because of the placement and the size of my room, and partly because of my aging hearing (and many years of chainsaw use) I'd like more bass. Can anyone suggest a good sub for this system - RSW12/RSW15/SVS? Thanks - Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny dB Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Although this is a TWO channel forum... Since BIGGER is better (and it's not my money), I'd go with the RSW-15. Sounds like you have a large room to fill. However, I've ran an KSW10 and then an KSW12 and it was just redundant with my Khorns. I'm sure the Reference series is much nicer, though. I now run a 15" JBL powered by an Adcom 555 bridged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Due to problems related to compression in the bass as the volume goes up, the only sub(s) I would recommend are a set of SVS Ultras. You could then use your solid state amp to drive the subs, and get yourself about 50 tube watts to drive the Belles. You would need an external electronic crossover like the $400 HSU research product. All said and done -- you would be all said and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pland Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Hi, I'm using the 18" Adire Maelstrom with their 250 watt plate amp,in a 24in. sealed enclosure.Integrates beautifully,and isn't audible at all unless significant low energy is on the recorded material.The most musical of the subs I've heard(sounds a lot like an REL) due to large area with modest excursion. The driver is on sale for 299.00,so you should be able to construct one for 600.00 or less. Best, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Although I am not a fan of sub use, especially with 2 channel, I will say I had this very speaker in my house for two months and it is a BEAST!!! I was taking pictures of it for a client to post online and LORDY.... IT took up more room than my coffee table! Even my CAT was frightened! From all those that report, the sealed sub with the Maelstrom is an imposing beast and does an excellent job for those in need of this approach. If going for a sub with 2 Channel, sealed is the only way to go, in my opinion. I have talked to those the run their systems with the Adire subs and there is much praise. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J M O N Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 I would get in touch with Tom Brennan and purchase both of his JBL bass bins that he has for sale (if they are still available). Nothing in this price range (or almost at any price point) will be able to integrate as seamlessly with your Belles as these will. I don't like subwoofers either for music, but these will work. The only other option I could suggest is the Horn Subwoofer from Bruce Edgar -- although I have not heard it. That one is also an audio bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J M O N Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 P.S. That Hafler amp would be FANTASTIC! powering those JBL's. Then you can get something better to drive the Belles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 This post (like so many before ) has made me reconnect my REL Stadium II to the Khorns and there is no doubt that bass drums suddenly present more of their corpus than before. Often I am torn whether the sub integrates with this horn-loaded bass or not and I think it depends on the music you are listening to (and the sub's settings, of course). Recalling the impact of drums, lower strings of an orchestra in a live concert, I think adding a decent sub helps to add realism. Just getting it crossed over to the main speakers is sometimes a bit puzzling, because on the one hand you want more bass, on the other hand the rest of the sound shouldn't be altered. More bass sounds impressive (if added with care) but when is it too much? I try to recall the physical impact a drum has got when evaluating the sub's settings, but we all know that acoustic memory can be quite misleading! Still, at the moment I find it's worth trying. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer9911 Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 I'd give the Velodyne HGS-15/18 some serious consideration or even a REL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike82 Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 As many have already stated, there are concerns whether typical subs will integrate well with the Khorn/Belle/ Lascala. In my experience, they do not. I've tried subs with the Khorn/Belle and back-loaded Lamhorn. Yes, you get more bass, but the integration and coherence sucks big time. It's a speed issue. The horn-loaded subs from Edgarhorn and the Moondog Maya work very well, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Over the years I tried lots of subwoofers with my Cornwalls--it's not that I felt they lacked sufficient bass most of the time, but on really thumping, hard driving soul-jazz I always thought I needed "more." But every one I tried was HORRIBLE and that includes some pretty pricey, high-end stuff. But then someone let me try a Linn Sizmik subwoofer--it's really a tiny little thing and VERY expensive. I plugged it in and fiddled around for about 20 minutes and put on some Reuben Wilson at full-tilt volume and my jaw dropped! This is the fastest, most musical sub I have ever heard and it integrates SEAMLESSLY with the Cornwalls. And it doesn't screw up "quiet" music either. Anyway, I eneded buying the darn thing for $1100 (which was a STEEP discount from a freind who is a Linn dealer). A lot of cash, but worth every penny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pland Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Hi, Art Dudley reviewed the Linn sub very favorably in one of the last issues of "Listener".He was using it with Lowther PM2a's in Medallion cabinets,a combo that normally defies integration with a sub. I built the Maelstrom to go with my PM6a's in a 50in. folded pipe enclosure,and I was shocked at how good the results are.Fast,musical,and just doesn't exist until needed.In the past I've tried M&K,velodyne,and VMPS,all of which sounded contrived in some way,and none of which acheived the proper timing needed to integrate with a horn loaded enclosure.Sounds equally good with my new Belles,once I resolved some placement issues. Best, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Pat, what was the folded horn enclosure type you built? IS there a picture of its implementation? Also, are you running those Belle with your Citation II? I still have not heard a single sub I have liked with 2 Channel music. Perhaps some day. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pland Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Hi Kelly, The enclosure is a George Thomlinson(from Houston) design,and as simple as it is,it's the most balanced Lowther enclosure I've heard to date.Has decent response down to the high 30's and is great with an EL84 based Scott or Eico.It's basically a folded TQWP,50 inches tall with a rear facing port(horn mouth). You and I are in the same camp as far as subs go,but the Maelstrom sounds and integrates with horns very very well.Does require some fiddling as far as placement(mine sounds most natural with no corner reinforcement)and volume,as it isn't linear with increases or decreases in speaker output.I tweak the output once I adjust my overall system level. I'm using my Citation II and it works surprizingly well with the Belles.I'm delighted with it's first couple of watts;still as good a PP sound as I've heard.Sounds like an EL84 based amp on steroids with great bass control. I haven't listened to the Belles with SET,but I suspect Jazzman will be more than delighted with the Roitberg amp and pre.I've had them boxed up for shipment for weeks,and need to get them out to him this weekend.To be honest,I've had some trouble getting stuff done,and am just starting to clear out the fog a bit. Best, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 I have just spent an evening listening to the Khorns with the REL on. My main music were some recordings by Dave Brubeck, Ben Webster and some classical CDs. To my ears the sub integrates quite nicely with the speakers. Bass instrument get more weight and seem to reveal more of their corpus. On there own the khorns do produce a really decent sound, but with the sub a bass/drum seems to be a bit more physical/three-dimensional. But I find an evaluation of this particular sound field really difficult as in reproduced music it is so far away from the real think. I mean 'in the flesh' the thud of a drum has a physical aspect as well and that's something most speakers simply seem not to be able to reproduce on their own (at least not convincingly enough). On the other hand the acousics of a live event are so different to the situation in one's listening room that comparisons will always be rather difficult. I suppose the best one can get is a good but size reduced copy. For the 'real' thing one simply has to attend a live concert. Still, in a certain way a good sub might help - and I think the REL seems to do a pretty decent job. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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