I'm in love.....(boom)...... I'm all caulked up !!

[Deang]

Removing it is cake -- just use a good exacto knife and slice underneath it. In the case of the sqauwker lens, just slice through it and peel off.

C&S -- you really NEED to do the whole squawker lens and tweeter lens as well.

[Clipped and Shorn]

Dean,

In your original post about the woofer mod, didn't you say that you didn't hear much difference with the horn caulking or was that someone else? I recall someone being rather vehement about Cornwall horn caulking not working very well, what was that? I based my decision on something someone said about only caulking the horns moderately. Also there was someone who said they reversed the horn caulking because they said it deadened the sound too much. What are you doing with yours currently? Why the caulkng on the tweeter?

C&S

[Deang]

Yeah, that was me, and what I said was that "caulking the squawker doesn't do crap".

I think I was wrong.

I'm so busy anymore I don't always make, or take time to post about the new and wierd *** things I do.

Originally, and what I did post about, was that I sprayed a very thick layer of acoustic damping spray called 'Road Kill' over the external surface of my lenses. Before doing so however, I found out that by tapping on them while attached to the baffle -- they did not ring. In fact, they made less noise while tapping around on them than the woofer basket. Since I had already made the purchase of the 'Road Kill' product -- I decided to go ahead and spray them down anyways. After attaching them back to the baffle, tapping on them didn't sound any different than what they sounded like before I sprayed. I took a listen and couldn't hear squat difference. I concluded it was a waste. I did wrap about 4 inches of caulk around the base of the lens just for the heck of it.

I week later I was back into one of the cabinets staring at the Type B's -- contemplating some ALKs (after getting AL's quote I about dropped a turd). I was looking at the squawker, and wasn't so much thinking about 'ringing', but vibration in general. Then I started thinking about what vibration really is: rapid, uncontrolled movement. I then began wondering about what happens to wave forms coming off of the diaphram, which are already moving in and out in a very rapid minscule way -- when subjected to vibration (the very rapid moving back and forth in another way, or direction). Now, the amount of movement may be miniscule -- but what happens to the effected waveform as it moves down the throat of the horn? What is it doing by the time it hits your ears at the listening position?

If you shine a flashlight beam on the wall, and then move the flashlight -- though the amount of movement of the flashlight is rather small -- the movement of the beam on the wall is pretty extreme in relationship to the movement of the flashlight in your hand.

Does sound work this way?

I'm not talking resonances here -- just the impact of mechanical vibration on wave forms.

So, I caulked EVERYTHING. To me, it's not about 'ringing', but about using damping and mass loading to gain rigidity.

It takes less time to caulk the entire surface of two squawker and tweeter lenses, and throw on a CD -- then the time it takes to search the net and spend 3 hours reading technical papers on sound propagation -- with no guarantee of finding what I'm looking for. I still need to do the reading however -- just no time right now.

I don't think these tweaks do much of anything at the lower listening levels, but at the higher ones -- where I enjoy living sometimes.

[horonzak]

Deang Calculate the square inch's on all the spokes of the woofer basket. You will see the surface facing the cone ( the face not caulked) will refleck more audible energy through the cone & causing more distortion negating any damping placed on back of basket. Disconect mid & tweeter when making distortion tests (MLSSA) I found caulking basket is a waste of time. But damping some horn's & enclosures indeed gives a better bang for the buck in controling unwanted vibrations, T.A.D makes one woofer basket TL 1601c whose cast spokes are thinner facing cone but thicker on edge with less reflecksion back through cone. But again the magnets strapped to the back are so damn large these days this again causes more back reflections. AND YOU TELL ME YOU CAN HEAR AN IMPROVEMENT WHEN CAULKING THE BACK?...BULL****.

[mike stehr]

So why not try the rope caulk on the inside of the spokes on the basket facing the cone?

Wouldn't this affect the QT? (Whether it be for good or worse, who knows.)

Fill a Cornwall with about 2 pounds or so of Polyfill.

[Deang]

Maron,

In spite of your responses to my thoughts being somewhat condescending and patronizing, I posted a response that was quite sincere. I admitted that your suggestion of unhooking the squawker and tweeter, so I could more accurately hear my assumed changes to the woofers output -- was a good idea. I was trying to learn something, and specifically asked you if that was the reason you wanted me to disconnect the other drivers.

Your last response is in the context of sound reflection from the frontside of the basket into the back of the cone -- and I hadn't even thought that far yet -- but still dealing with thoughts regarding the impact of mechanical vibration on soundwaves emanating from the driver surface. I appreciate your input -- but the spirit in which you do it stinks.

So, did you do these distortion tests at various SPL's? Were these distortion measurements done at the driver, or 10 feet away where the ear/brain do their work?

Yes, at 95db and up -- I can hear the difference. Get over it.

"BULLSH!T" indeed.

[fini]

Wouldn't sound waves reflecting off the basket (facing the cone) be dispersed around the box, as they aren't perpendicular to either the cone surface or the centerline of the woofer?

fini

[horonzak]

DeanG Sorry for being a stinko. But yes at 95dn you will hear a difference. But is it the speaker? OR room plus speaker? I use a Anechoic chamber. I have access to a full chamber or a half chamber (latter with concrete floor.) Tests were done with calibrated mic. at various distences from one inch to 3 meters. Sorry for sounding condescending. I guess I have some test gear you might not have at your disposal. I too have gone through damping cheap stamped woofer baskets (K33 & others) and found it worthless. Remember cone motion in K-horn , LaScala' Bell' Cornwall' is very small peak to peak. Internal reflections not resonence of spokes came into what was being heard when levels like 95db and UP were introduced. So when I suggested disconnecting mid & tweeter this gives you a better chance to test or listen for resonce or REFLECTIONS. Personaly I dont like stamped woofer baskets. But the K-33 is hard to beat for an ugly duckling woofer. Some others of better build that match it are not being made today. But in some ways some direct radiater woofers like the JBL 1500 woofer used in the K-2 is now hard to beat.(Not to be used in a horn)... But placing Mortite on back of spokes may only shift resonence up or down but not eliminate it. How thick do you want to go? 1/8", 1/4" 1/2", 3/4" ?????? Lets do the work again. And again maybe Ill learn something yet. BUT when some one comes on here with only a doubious tweek and says HAY I heard a difference!!!! what did you hear? Some one said they heard a dry sound.. When was it ever WET?

[RobLikesTubes]

I certainly cannot testify to any "measured"(as with meters) improvement. I've always let my ears be the judge when it comes to tweeks.

There is NO doubt in my mind, and 3 others who listened before and after to the caulk tweek, that the detail in the bass lines, timbral acuracy, and 'tightness' (bass drums especially) of these speakers improved signifigantly with this little tweek.

Once audiophile friend, not knowing the tweek was performed commented:

"Wow, what did you change the Klipsch's ? , the bottom end is much more detailed that when I first heard them"

Coincidence ? hell, maybe

But, I know what I hear/don't hear.

[horonzak]

ROB... TIMBRAL accuracy (TIMBRE) The quality given to a sound by its overtones. THE RESONENCE by which the ear recognizes the quality of tone distinctive of a particular musical instrument or voice. All you did was SHIFT the resonence. THATS what you ALL heard. Shure you heard a difference I dont deny that. BUT you didnt eliminate the resonence just changed its caracture. THATS what you ALL heard. Lets say.... Its like my face... Some times with a smile...Some times with afrown. But its still my ugly face. YOU ALL saw/heard the same distortion but a shifted resonence. Thats why I said to disconnect the mids & tweets so the upper harmonics wont confuse the issue.

[Clipped and Shorn]

darn.....just when I had myself convinced that I heard a dramatic difference from caulking my woofer's basket. at any rate, the caulking, does keep out the fleas and fido is much quieter now sleeping in her basket.

what about the guy who said that caulking the horns made them dead sounding? that is what I was worried about when I only caulked about 1/4 of the Cornwall horns. any reports from those who fully caulked the horns and tweeter?

C&S

[Terry N. Cruse]

Gentlemen Please.

I am breaking down the '75 C-WOs this weekend for refinishing, new Xovers and bracing.

To calk or not to calk. This is starting to sound like a "wire" discussion.

No Slam this weekend.

tc

[Terry N. Cruse]

PS: I am also concerned about "dead" sounding horns. Too much calk perhaps?

tc

[Clipped and Shorn]

Terry.

It sure seems like my Cornwalls were greatly improved by 1) caulking the woofer frames, 2) partial caulking of horns. and 3) placing Cornwalls on solid stone surface instead of carpeting. My reveiw was serious, I could swear they sounded dramatically improved. I am now wondering if a bit more caulking on the horns would have added further to their accuracy. It is a bit too much trouble at the moment to pull them back out and try this, but I still might do it at some point. My conclusion at the time of caulking (a few weeks ago) was to only partially caulk the horns. Most of the Altecies I have communicated with are of the belief that you cannot make an Altec 511B horn too dead, so maybe this also applies to the Klipsch horn. If I was doing it again now, I probably would have just gone ahead and completely cauked the horn, but probably not the tweeter because that does not make sense to me.

Do you remember seeing a pic here of someone's Cornwalls with everything completely caulked,even the tweet, who was that and did he say he liked it??

C&S

[dougdrake]

I found just running a thin bead of caulk between the top of the tile backsplash and the wall, then dragging my thumbnail across it to remove the excess, produced excellent results with no deadening in tile acoustics or loss of WAF.

Doug

(oops, I drifted in here by accident (i see you nodding your head.). meant to post in the home depot caulking forum. my bad.)

[Terry N. Cruse]

----------------

On 4/17/2003 10:41:04 PM Clipped and Shorn wrote:

Terry.

It sure seems like my Cornwalls were greatly improved by 1) caulking the woofer frames, 2) partial caulking of horns. and 3) placing Cornwalls on solid stone surface instead of carpeting. My reveiw was serious, I could swear they sounded dramatically improved. I am now wondering if a bit more caulking on the horns would have added further to their accuracy. It is a bit too much trouble at the moment to pull them back out and try this, but I still might do it at some point. My conclusion at the time of caulking (a few weeks ago) was to only partially caulk the horns. Most of the Altecies I have communicated with are of the belief that you cannot make an Altec 511B horn too dead, so maybe this also applies to the Klipsch horn. If I was doing it again now, I probably would have just gone ahead and completely cauked the horn, but probably not the tweeter because that does not make sense to me.

Do you remember seeing a pic here of someone's Cornwalls with everything completely caulked,even the tweet, who was that and did he say he liked it??

C&S

----------------

I'm going to go for it. Couldnt be too hard to reverse.

I saw that CW photo as well but cant remember who posted it.

I will hit the basket and mid horn with a heavy layer.

Will leave the tweet alone. Just doesnt seem like enough area there to cause ringing.

thanks,

tc

[horonzak]

Remember the mid & high frequency horns should reproduce the music & not make music. Caulk on a good thick layer. I prefer the TAD TH-4001 or JBL 2397. Both thick wooden horns. As yet I havent heard the newer TAD TH-4003 plus it has a 1-1/2 inch throat. But what is interesting is an Acoustical filter assited tuning in the upper portion of the horn it absorbs any further horn resonence (If any). This horn is already SUPER THICK and can take explosive wave fronts & clean the green off your teeth with the propper mid driver.

[Deang]

Serious horns would be nice -- some wood lenses would be awesome.

I think Maron is right about what we hearing. What he says makes sense. I think the damping on the basket just moves the resonance up. I do think it's possible that the place the resonance moved to, does less harm then where it was.

My squawker and tweeter are completely wrapped -- from the base where the lenses attach to the drivers, all the way to the motorboard.

As soon as I get done rebuilding this LAST set of DQ-10's -- I'm going to install the Deflex pad, add some additional bracing in the cabinet, and mod the risers to accept sand.

[Dflip]

Danny:

Where did you put the deflex panels on your Cornwalls? Were they restricted to the back panel, or did they also go on the front or side?

They are not an expensive tweak for small speakers, but it would take some sheets to do a Cornwall.

Any further information as to mounting location and there effects would be appreciated.

[Deang]

Damn Danny, you're stealing my thunder!

I can't remember how many Danny ended up using -- but yeah, to do a pair of Cornwalls ain't cheap.

To do it "right" -- 80% of the interior needs to be covered. I would think with a smaller speaker this is probably overkill, but I think with a speaker like the Cornwall, well -- it needs all the help it can get.

I will be completely covering the back panel, as well as the top and bottom. I'm going to leave the sides alone, for this is where I am going to install the cross-brace.