n2v Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Hello, I've completely rebuilt my entire home theater over the past two weeks, and part of that included adding a JBL PB12 Subwoofer. I own a Klipsch 4.1 Promedia system and was thinking about adding an SWS or two, this was before I bought the PB12. Just out of curiosity, I hooked up the PB12 to my GTXP sound card along with my klipsch speakers and the amount of bass it produced was phenomenal. The PB12 only costs ~$240 shipped off of eBay and I was wondering -- is it worth buying two SWS subwoofers or instead adding a PB12 to my Klipsch system? Do the SWS have something that a home theater subwoofer doesn't? Thanks for the advice in advance, Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 HT subwoofers should give you much more then the SWS.Not all HT subs are created equal,the low end units(under $400)often are of lesser quality then the SWS.They have more "BOOM" but bass definition is poor,they are all optimised to impress the newbs. I would get two SWS unless I could get a HSU VTF2 for the same price,even at $450 the VTF2 is a better choice.It goes deeper and bass quality is better. The question is why "upgrade" if the current setup works well?If you are satisfied leave it like it is. Quality mid range subs start at about $600,the serious bass masters start at $1500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2v Posted April 25, 2003 Author Share Posted April 25, 2003 I was under the impression that there isn't much difference between the $400 subs and the $1500 subs. Unless you're a true audiophile, you wouldn't be able to decipher the difference anyways. Am I completely off the ball here? Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 "I was under the impression that there isn't much difference between the $400 subs and the $1500 subs." LOL Its like to say there is no much difference between a $400 speakers(Klipsch SB3) and $1500(Dynaudio Contour 1.1)speakers.There is a world of difference,sound and built quality,detail,finesse.Not even close As for subwoofers take a $400 from CircuitCity and compare it to the Klipsch RSW15 or SVS Ultra/Samson 1000 amp.If you dont hear the improvemnet right away ask your doctor for a full hearing cheackup.Bass definition,lack of nasty harmonics and bass reach make the $400 sub sound like a bass module in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinipig523 Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 n2v, there is a heck of a difference between 400 and 1500 subs. if there wasnt then there would be no reason make 1500 subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2v Posted April 27, 2003 Author Share Posted April 27, 2003 Of course I know that there is a difference between $400 and $1500 subs, I asked if there was "much difference (in sound quality)" between the two. What I'm trying to say is would the average Joe be able to tell right off the bat that there is a huge difference in sound quality? I honestly have no clue because I've never seen two subs with a $900 price difference side by side. Thanks for your input. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sesquim Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 yah.. good question.. me 2, i want to know.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinipig523 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 heck yeah there's a difference. the more expensive subs usually go a lot lower than inexpensive subs. high end subs can put out low frequency sound (around 20Hz, and even downwards to 16hz) at around 110-120db while cheaper subs have trouble breaking the 25hz barrier at 100-110db. more expensive subs - actually lets start calling them high performance subs - are quicker and have much greater headroom. lesser subs are sloppier, boomier and reach excursion when pushed too far. as far as telling the difference between the two? how bout this... which do u think displays a better subwoofer: one that shakes the desk and the floor? or one that not only shakes the floor, desk and walls but also grabs u by the heart and shakes your internals? a good sub can shake the floor and walls, a great sub can pump your chest and shake your internals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 "What I'm trying to say is would the average Joe be able to tell right off the bat that there is a huge difference in sound quality?" The average Joe is capable of hearing and feeling the great difference in sound quality and shake factor.The shake factor is physical so anyone,even deaf people could say sub A from sub B. Quality to some is a boomy and fat bass and will irritate any audiophile who seeks clean,distortion free bass. Cheapo subs will not even reach the 100dB level at 25Hz under 10% THD. You have two schools of subs the first is performance/price like SVS and HSU.You pay mostly for the woofer/amp and the least money goes towards the cabinet(all SVS besides the SS and B4-Plus).Here the woofer costs almost as much as the amp itself,lots of linear traven and a solid power amp.The cabinet often a tube costs peanuts and looks very ordinary. These subs dig down to below 16Hz with power and are very clean. The second you pay the most for the well built,handsome cabinet.I take as an example the Aerial SW12.This subs cabinet construction and component quality is as good as it gets(MDF cabinet here,not aluminium or composite).The woofer costs about the same as in an Ultra,the amp is way more expensive then the SVS plate amps and the cabinet is the star of the show.Performance is great but overall you can almost match the sonic qualities with an Ultra. I compared countless subs side by side and I own a dozen subs.From the tiny Sunfire Super Junior to the Aerial SW12.The Aerial is the most expensive of the lot but not the most brutal or the one reaching deepest.The HGS18 is the depth king,the HGS18 when properly placed and configured can shake the room at 16Hz.This is 16Hz as clean as the best subs in the world.No audible harmonics Subs are not always designed to dig low,some are designed for maximum punch.Like the RSW15,and the Revel B15(reaches quite deeper then the RSW15)and also has a vicious punch. Now side by side lets take a Sony WM40 just for fun The Sony WM40 sounds like a thin wooden boom box and the "sub bass" booms and distorts as soon as any serious deep bass comes around.The Sunfire Signature(much smaller then the Sony WM40!)shakes the room and your inside on the same tracks with brutal force and goes a solid 20Hz deeper with power two WM40 could not match even running at 240V LOL Simply put the Sunfire Signature belts 117dB at 31.5Hz and still over 100dB at 20Hz!T There is no secret to subwoofers,subs must be capable of moving alot of air.This is done with cone(piston)surface and long linear throw.The Sony WM40 has a pathetic linear,the Sunfire Signature has a monster linear cone travel in comparison. Just look at the WM40 woofer and the Sunfire Signature woofer,the WM40 voice coil magnetic structure is like a flea compared to the monster Sunfire moror structure.The WM40 foam sourround is the size of a midrange sourround,the SUnfire uses Tumult like sourround(thick compressed foam).The WM40 amp belongs in a Cookie Monster radio,the small but powerful Sunfire super efficient amp can drive any large super woofer to its limits(capable of 2700W RMS into the Sig's woofer VC)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2v Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 theears: Thanks for the extremely detailed response; I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my questions. When you say that certain subs can go down to 16Hz, at that frequency you can't even hear anything audible, correct? Ive heard that the average human is only able hear frequencies ranging from 20Hz to 20,000Khz. So, when the sub does hit those extremely low notes at 16Hz you wouldn't hear them, but rather you'd feel them? That's pretty cool! Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 You will hear even 10Hz,but you cannot listen to a 10 or even 16Hz ...heck lets take a 20Hz test tone.If anyone says its fast or tight I will open a can of whoopa$$. The deeper the bass the more you will feel this bass,this does not mean you cannot hear it.The 20Hz to 20KHz range is a nice good looking number. As almost no humans can hear 20KHz(even with a -24dB loss compared to 1KHz)and most can hear below 20Hz.To say you dont hear below 20Hz would signify you cannot say if a 16Hz test tone was being reproduced by electrostatic headphones capable of high linearity down to 16Hz. The lower a sub tries to reach the more air it has to move to maintain a given SPL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creed Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 well, can i know how you connect a home theathre sub to your Klipsch PM4.1...i also owned a Wharfedale Powercube sub...and it's connected to a Diamond 8.1 stereo speaker and i just put these stereo setup right beside my computer table which have a set of Z680...i just think if i can connect the sub of the wharfedale to the Z680...this will be something truly interesting..since i think i won't have the time to on both system at once...why dun make full use of it right.?.care to let me know the detail ways to connect a sub to the multimedia system.?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2v Posted May 23, 2003 Author Share Posted May 23, 2003 Creed, I own a Game Theater XP sound card which allows me to hook up my subwoofer using a simple RCA cable. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake_mooney Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 ---------------- On 4/27/2003 1:49:51 PM pinipig523 wrote: n2v, there is a heck of a difference between 400 and 1500 subs. if there wasnt then there would be no reason make 1500 subs. ---------------- hahahahaha thats what you think yah theres "some" differences but not enought to charge 1500 for a sub when you can get awesome sound from an SWS sub or even two SWS subs their ripping you off the difference in sound is not a big enough of a difference to justify the price...i for one could never ask for more then the duel 8" sub that came with my pro media 5.1's (though i am buying an SWS just to have more bass) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinipig523 Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 blake, have you ever heard an svs pb2+ or the b4+? have you heard of anything larger than your 5.1 sub? you havent even heard an sws, so how can you back your claim? do you like having your subs teeter over 35hz? you ever feel the rumble at 16hz? good lord there definitely is a difference between $500 and $1500 - can you honestly say that a honda civic (stock)can outperform or perform equally to a bmw m3? for those who know what they're talking about and know what they are getting themselves into, $1000 difference in subwoofer price is definitely worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 don't forget teh new RW series subs are coming out soon, starting at like $350! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake_mooney Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 ---------------- On 7/15/2003 5:42:30 PM pinipig523 wrote: blake, have you ever heard an svs pb2+ or the b4+? have you heard of anything larger than your 5.1 sub? you havent even heard an sws, so how can you back your claim? do you like having your subs teeter over 35hz? you ever feel the rumble at 16hz? good lord there definitely is a difference between $500 and $1500 - can you honestly say that a honda civic (stock)can outperform or perform equally to a bmw m3? for those who know what they're talking about and know what they are getting themselves into, $1000 difference in subwoofer price is definitely worth it. ---------------- a thousand dollar difference is NOT worth it ive heard $1500 infinity, polk audio subs and i can honestly say that imo the klipsh pro media 5.1 sub sounds better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 ---------------- On 7/18/2003 7:31:10 AM blake_mooney wrote: a thousand dollar difference is NOT worth it ive heard $1500 infinity, polk audio subs and i can honestly say that imo the klipsh pro media 5.1 sub sounds better... ---------------- I am one of Klipsch's biggest fans, but I must depart from blind passion here. The ProMedia 5.1 subwoofer is a marvel, cost/performance/size. But in comparision to the cheapest SVS subwoofer (we are talking $475 last spring for a 25-31 PCi) the SVS blows away the ProMedia, leaving no room for debate. Imagine what $1500 would do with an SVS subwoofer, or Sunfire or even the Klipsch Reference line. Theears wrote it best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 ---------------- blake_mooney wrote: a thousand dollar difference is NOT worth it ive heard $1500 infinity, polk audio subs and i can honestly say that imo the klipsh pro media 5.1 sub sounds better... ---------------- LoL... infinity, polk audio subs. Just go listen to a Klipsch RSW-15 sub, a Velodyne HGS-15/18 and come back with your impressions compared to your PM sub!!! Those subs will blast yours below 30 Hz without any efforts and for sure, they sound better unless you like only distortioned boomy bass. There is no way a PM dual 8 incher can come close when we talk about air displacement capability of most of the good 12 or 15 inchers out there!!! And I know those 2 mentionned subs cost a lot but if you want better value go buy an SVS subwoofer. The PB2+ at $1199US will beat the crap out of your PM 5.1 sub! You talked about no difference between 500 or a 1500 sub so imagine an SVS sub which cost more than 1199 Im really sorry to be rude with you. I know the PM 5.1 sub is a very good sub, the best PC multimedia sub I can say. Ive been a very happy Klipsch Promedia listener in the past. But I think that before doing a comment like this one, you have to listen to some other more potent subs than Infinity and Polk Audio! Im sure than The_Ear will be really shocked to see that post from you and he risks to react! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i luv bass Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 On the topic of subwoofer, my logitech z-560's sub beats the hell out of my bro's Bose freestyle gaming speakers, yeeeeeeeah! he feels abit ripped off since he paid $850 AUD and i paid $450 score! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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