Deang Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Interesting stuff John. I do like silver inside the cabinet between the drivers and crossover -- I just think copper sounds more 'natural' to me when used between the amp and speakers. Of course, that's with my RF-7's, and so doesn't mean this is what others would think with their speakers -- as you have evidently found out. Enamel coated Litz wire (magnet wire), like what Cardas uses, or poly coated like the Goertz -- won't oxidize either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 It has been suggested that the way around the air between the conductor & the teflon tubing insulation is to treat the wire with a deoxidizer & conductivity enhancer/lubricant such as Caig ProGold before insertion into the tube. It also makes pulling the wire thru much easier. And RE: 'Prof. Alan J. Ardell of the Department of Materials Science and Engineering at UCLA writes, "silver doesn't oxidize at room temperature." BULL****. We all know & have seen silver products/artifacts "oxidize" at room temperature. And if we want to get really specific, I guess "tarnish" would be the correct term (correcting myself here), as the black or blueish color on the silver is not actually an oxide layer. When you are 'oxidizing' silver you use, for example, potasiumsulfide (K2S). The sulfide reacts with the silver and produces silversulfide (not some kind of 'oxide')- which is black/blueish... So it's not an really 'oxide' layer, but a layer that is created through a redox (oxidation reduction) process. How well does silversulfide conduct electrons? And what impact does it have on the "skin effect" & high frequencies? I don't know. But it seems like another potential bag of worms to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnellis Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 DeanG- The silver cable is far superior to what I've been using in the past. I can REALLY tell a difference. But, this is only comparing it to your average home depot cable and 10 gauage monster cable. It smokes both of them!! You may be right though. Copper may sound more natural when used between the amp and speakers. I've purchased some high end belden cable and I will A/B the pure silver verses the Belden copper. I'll let you know what I think when I do so. That said, the links I provided at least make it affordable for us to experiment. Which of course is a good thing. My application is somewhat different. Besides using Cornwall's verses RF-7's, my crossovers reside between the preamp and amps rather than between the drivers and amp. Passive tri-amping so to speak. Therefore we may have different results because of this as well. But, it's all subjective. And alot of fun too!!! P.S. Artto made a good point about treating the wire before inserting it into the tubing. Other people have suggested polishing the wire before inserting it as well. Same effect I would think. Good ideas nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnellis Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Artto- As for your BULL**** statement, it wasn't deserved. I'm only trying to be helpful. Not attacked. To each his own. I will post no more on this subject. Jim- This is a prime example of why I seldom post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Well Bull**** to you to then John. I made it perfectly clear that I was correcting MYSELF. Apparently you're not capable of accepting criticism regarding a someone else's statement (Prof. Ardell) that you pulled out of context, providing only part of the story. I don't care for 'half-baked' ideas, information, design, whatever, no matter who the person is. And when I hear or see it, I guarantee you will hear from me. Not sure why you're upset about my "attacking" the Prof. Allen Ardell statement anyway. So maybe silver doesn't actually 'oxidize' at room temperature. But it does TARNISH. And does so much more than gold. I do & say what I think is appropriate. If someone gets offened by it, I don't really give a damn. Fair warning to all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 John, Artto wasn't attacking you, but being critical of the statement you quoted -- in context. Artto caught himself though. Silver does not 'oxidize', it tarnishes. "...silver doesn't oxidize at room temperature. The culprit is sulfur, which reacts with silver to form a tarnish that silver polish removes." O.K. -- so what's the problem here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnellis Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Dean- Thanks. No problems here!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Hey Artto, you said "... many years ago I bought some rather expensive Mark Levinson interconnect cable. And while I like the sound of some of Levinson's early gear (haven't listened to any of the newer stuff), the cables just destroyed the sound. Muddy, constricted dynamics, loss of high end, dark, dull, etc. etc. To this day those cables are my last choice. Even standard cheapo grey Radio Shack interconnects sound better." Being the Devils Advocate here, if cables can make it sound worse, why can't they make it sound better? And who is to say where the line is drawn? Mind you, I have no expensive cables myself, almost all home-brew, and only to obtain what I consider the engineering level that is prudent: solid conductor, teflon (or air) dialectric, sturdy connectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Honestly guys, what happened to WIRE IS WIRE? I was jumped on once about my internal wire job, trully i think John ellis is going the right way instead of spending $1,300.00 for wires, if you could only see what he is actually doing, it would blow you away! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Hey, i've found the ultimate in speaker cables. I have biwired my rf3II's with bread twist ties tied together from my amp. I strip the plastic off the ties and twist them together following the left hand rule. As far as dielectric is concerned, i utilize the ultimate dielecric, air. I also run them as close as I can to the ac cords and tie wrap where possible. However, there is a distinct possibility that I may short out the finals in the amplifier if I move the speaker any amount, but I don't have to worry about oxidation as the wire is steel with a very light nickel coating. This is a very cheap tweek, requiring you to purchase 100 loaves of bread for each channel. The total cost ? $ 230 bucks and all the toast your vacuum tube amp can make. Invite your friends over for breakfast, they can eat and listen to tunes. Kinda like dinner and a movie, but a little different. If you believe that, I have a set of depleted uranium speaker cables for sale. They feature a ceramic coating, which makes them difficult to terminate and route, and require you wear a lead shield to listen to music, but they add so much musicality, as the electrons are constantly moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwood forest Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Oxidation, reduction , tarnished, oxidized, boy are we getting technical. Actually tarnish can refer to the precipitate that forms from a redox reaction also known as an oxidation-reduction reaction. Oxidation is the process of an atom or ion increasing it's charge during a reaction, while reduction is the process of an atom or ion reducing it's charge. Just because a substance is oxidized does NOT necessarily mean that an oxide or oxygen compound is formed during the reaction. It simply means that the substance has increased it's charge. Can we all regain our composure now? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 "It simply means that the substance has increased it's charge." Well then, from now on I'll only be using fully oxidized cables. A cable with a higher charge HAS to sound better than one with a lower one!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwood forest Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Pure silver has a 0 (neutral) charge. Silver in silver oxide or any other silver compound has a positive 1 charge. If you oxidize silver, then you change it from pure silver with a 0 charge to an increased charge of positive 1. Are you want oxidized silver? Any oxidized silver will be in a tarnished form. The same goes with copper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 uh...I wuz kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwood forest Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I knew that. The above was for those that didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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