sunnysal Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 My Jean-Francois PP 2A3 amp arrived last night just as I got home from work. Just like christmas. Beautifully packed in a wood crate (which took me almost 30 minutes to open because it had special screws), it arrived safe and sound. What a nice looking amp! the wood is gorgeous, 9 trannies, nice ceramic sockets for the tubes, real eye candy! obviously I stayed up late setting it all up (and cleaning connectors on my other components, while one is back there working why not clean everything up, huh?) and managed to listen for about an hour before my wife started elbowing me that the kids were asleep and I was playing too loud. Since all tubes are new Sovtek and EH, not only are they not broken in but probably not the best available (if anyone wants to give suggestions for 2A3, 6SN7 and 5U4G NOS tubes that would sound fabulous in a PP amp, please let me know) but I had to listen and this is what I heard: first of all, no noise...none at all. no hum, no hiss, nothing. considering that Jeff was worried about how they would sound with my k-horns I think this is an example once again of a true craftsman, Jeff you did it! As to music, I can only compare to my memory of my EL34 PP amp and these are the differences I think I percieved: very chewy and round lower treble, mid range and upper bass. really text book tube sound (which for me is NICE). nice detail and sheen in the treble (though I think it might be just a tad rolled off in the upper treble, not sure yet but cymbals sound a little less airy at the very top end) male and female voices are to die for! sax, violin, cello, piano all sound more "real" than before, guitar, both acoustic and electric are just amazing. the amp sounded very nice and competent not only only small ensemble pieces (I pulled out all my best recordings of Jazz, Classical and Blues) but did great duty on such varied run of the mill recordings as "James Brown Live at the Apollo", "Steely Dan Aja", "Led Zep Houses of the Holy", "Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon", "Santana Milagro", "AC/DC Back in Black", "Lynyrd Skynyrd One More From the Road"...I even tried some previous ear torture albums to see if they would sound any better (Elvis Costello My Aim is True, any Smithereens album, Sugar Cubes, Santana Supernatural) and you know what? they were rendered more listenable. I know these amps have the "tone control" stigma for this, but the end result was positive for my music. As to my worries about volume for this "weakling" amp, foget'boutit! knocks me right out of the room at will with any music and only the slightest hint of overdrive when playing complex rock at the highest volume and even then is just sounds a little compressed not unlistenable. weaknesses, early to tell but first impressions say that in comparison with my previous amp this has some rolling off or lack of air at the very highest frequencies, the bass has a somewhat more bloated aspect (which I find pleasing), perhaps less control or extension at the bottom end than the EL34 PP? lastly the sounstage is a little different than before, while it extends from speaker to speakers and has good depth of image I think it has somewhat less continuous coverage than before, that is to say that it tends to provide wide left and right and a center image and less fill between them in a panoramic form than my previous setup. I am still exploring this issue it seems also to cause the drums to appear in the middle behind the volcalist more than before when there was some more spread (again just an initial impression) around the middle with the other setup. could this be a natural difference between mono-blocks and the stereo amp? the only other changes in the system I made for this swap was to the speaker cables, I have very short Cardas cables I used with the mono-blocks I swapped for the Synergistic cables when installing this amp, I do not know what differenc ethis might make. So it begins...I will keep y'all informed as it breaks in and as I tube roll (starting with the 6SN7s right?). All in all an amazing amplifier for the price and just what the audio doctor ordered for my system. I will post pics this weekend, regards,tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 ***************************************************************** but did great duty on such varied run of the mill recordings as "James Brown Live at the Apollo", "Steely Dan Aja", "Led Zep Houses of the Holy", "Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon", "Santana Milagro ***************************************************************** Sunnysal, Try some RCA 2a3, to my ears they gave the best balance of tone and frequency range over the Sovtek and ValveArt. Steely Dan & Pink Floyd recordings are harldy run of the mill recordings.IMHO. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Congrats on the amp. Sounds as though you really got yourself a beauty. Please keep on writing about your experiences - and pictures would be great too. As for 6SN7s, I found that with my previous 300B SET integrated the best choice was the Sylvania VT-231. Apart from tonal characteristics I found the huge and three dimensional soundstage utterly convincing. I know that this tube isn't exactly cheap, but to my ears worth every penny. Just my $0.02 and keep on enjoying the music! Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Congrats on your new amps Tony! A question for you...these are PP 2A3's, how many watts to they put out? As far as tubes go I have had good success with Sylvania 6SN7s as well as VT-231s, RCA or other brands of 5692s and RCA 2A3s. Can't wait to see photos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted May 14, 2003 Author Share Posted May 14, 2003 watts? Jeff says ten watts per channel. my subjective estimation is that is sounds nearly as powerful as my MkIV did. that put out 30 watts/channel when strapped triode. the difference lies at the slight compression I hear at +100db levels (I will test more this weekend with my ratshack meter) which the MkIV did not exhibit. but the sound is full and clear and powerful up to the limit of my volume tolerance. quite a feat. tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted May 14, 2003 Author Share Posted May 14, 2003 other photo did not work...here is one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted May 14, 2003 Author Share Posted May 14, 2003 just inside photos for now, outside this weekend...nice workmanship! and good parts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted May 14, 2003 Author Share Posted May 14, 2003 last one for today. overall inside view...lots'a trannies...almost no caps...I love the sound! tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Really looks like a nice job, I really want to see the outside shots also! I can't wait to hear the Horus'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dflip Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Looks great, I'm sure you will enjoy your new toy, before, during and after the break in period. Are these amps and his preamps on a website, so I could see pictures and prices? Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Congratulations, Nice looking amps, on the inside anyway. Interesting collection of parts .. I wonder how they're all hooked up. PP has interesting qualities: cancellation of noise and bias current magnetic flux. Makes fast output transformers a simpler set of problems than traditional SET designs. I'm sure the amp will keep sounding better and better. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted May 14, 2003 Author Share Posted May 14, 2003 re: web site? no, but kelly had posted lots of pics on his site, the URL escapes me at the moment, I will look for it. leo, I am sure they will improve, if you want to see the schematic I am sure jeff would send it to you for study, he is a really nice person. looks a little to me like the JE labs PP 2A3 schematic but with the 6SN7 doing double duty in the circuit and of course with trannies in place of caps...by the way, you will be pleased to know that the differences I am hearing between your amp and this amp are minor, surprisngly so...you should be quite proud of that little devil, it will be doing further service in my office system! I do have interesting news (at least for me) I discovered the reality of detecting absolute phase today. since I had been somewhat disturbed by the different soundstage presented by this amp I decided to play with the only things I could at this point (I have no tubes to roll yet), so I started by changing the polarity of one speaker (simply swapping wires one one side of the amp´s binding posts)...well the stereo soundstage virtually disappeared. not that they did not play different sounds through the speakers and showed instruments in different locations but it was quite localized in the speakers mostly, the soundstage had no panorama to it, this is not surprising, those of us who have made the "one speaker out of phase" error before know that happens BUT... I then went back stage one...yup nice stereo but the panorama was not quite as I remembered on the MkIVs, not quite as spread out and holographic...so... well, on a lark, I swapped both sides´ polarity...guess what? WHAMO! holograph! the soundstage as I remembered it before, not only that but the images were just slightly oversized compared to my Dynaco, more a "big head" singing as opposed to the more normal size before, and more depth of image... I went back to stage one again to be sure and yes, nice stereo imaging, placment of images across the field between the speakers BUT... swap both again and WHAMO...well not only that but the cymbals sound better now. so absolute phase made a huge difference for me... I am now a really happy camper and while I may buy a few pairs of 6SN7s out of curiosity I now have no gripes whatsoever about this amplifier. I will continue to listen and let y´all know how it breaks in... first pic of system attached, warm regards from sunny el salvador, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 sunnysal, Oh .. it's stereo. I missed that. That helps dissipate some of the confusion. It's a really nice looking amp. 10W of 2A3 is a lot of very clean power. I'll check your design references, including Jeff. I think pp designs are a great path to some well behaved muscle. Thanks for the note on the P6D. I am pleased. The office system with RB5s should work very well. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 BTW Jeff says the design is closer to the Sun 300B PP amp then the JE labs...all I can say is the sound is marvelous, now that the wiring is allright (Jeff confirmed yesterday night that the thing inverts polarity...lol) it exceeds my expectations...and I still have to let the tubes settle in and upgrade the 6SN7s! what a life. leo, I will let you know how they sound with the RB-5s, I suspect it will be a really good combination! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Sunnysal! How absolutely fantastic these look! I have here-and-there mentally worked out (even a little on paper, too) using 2A3s in parallel, but this looks to be just a fabulous design. Elegant and minimal on the outside, but it's the work going on under the hood that for me wins the prize. I was impressed with Jeff's layout and wire-dress on his Pantheon preamp, and what is shown here is simply totally first-rate. And talk about a ground bus....10AWG of solid copper wire! BTW: I think Sovteks are incredible sounding. I have some NOS RCA and GE, and the Sovteks are lots better....for ME they are better, I should say. It's all entirely, completely........subjective. Use what sounds good to you. Congrats Sunnysal; very, very nice work, Jeff L.! (I wanna build a Horus, now!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Sunny, Looks like Jeff did another bang up job. Your new jewel looks great and I bet it sounds awesome too !! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 I think you low watt guys are nuts -- but you're still my favorite people I bet those do sound awfully sweet on those K-horns -- now Sunny, all you need is some Chevelle to really torture test those amps -- right Craig? I think Craig's LaScalas are still tying to recover -- as well as his ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 I listen to thrash/metal/heavy material on low watt amps. It's clean. You learn to live with it.. Nice 2A3 PP amp Sunnysal, I briefly listened to a old 2A3 vintage parallel push-pull (Webster?) theatre amp once. I liked the extra low-end and the SET mid/high end that the amp put out. Nice sound for around 70 years old. That's as close as I get to hearing a 2A3 PP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 thanks for the comments guys. I was going for that combo of SET mids and highs with some balls in the low end (like I had with the dynaco MkIVs) and frankly this does it....does it right! I was sure that a 2A3 SET would leave me wanting when I got in my "bad boy" mood and cranked "rage against the machine", "Public Enemy", a whole bunch of disco/funk (ohio players, C&C music factory, Chic, James Brown), well last night I tried some of those (and about two dozen 70's rock albums; thin lizzy, deep purple, aerosmith, ac/dc, led zep, bad company, etc.) and the bottom has balls, and really does not compress. it still reveals poor recordings but does sweeten them up a bit. I am a happy camper! for any of you that are attracted to the SET sound but need some more wham, this may very weel be the way to go. erik thanks for the comments about sovteks, one can get an inferiority complex about russian tubes. but with EH 6SN7s and the sovtek 5U4G and 2A3s I am quite happy with the sound...the EH 2A3s (gold grid and ceramic bases) are in customs now as is an EH 5U4GB (to give me two sets of tubes just in case)...I will start the tube rolling efforts with the 6SN7s as jeff says this will have the biggest effect on the sound. Jeff really knows what he is doing! regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 I love my amps I love my amps I love my amps I love my amps Now go away Sunny -- no more taunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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