Cut-Throat Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 I have finally got my Moondogs that I purchased last month working the way I want them to. With the help of Erik Mandaville, we quieted a hum that they had. I also got some of the new TJ meshplate 2A3's and RCA Red Base 5692's. I really like the look of the burled walnut bases, and as far as sound they are a big step up from my 300b's. It may be that the 2A3 tube is better suited for the Klipsch Belles. Anyway, I thought I'd share a picture of these Moondogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Wow! I am so jealous!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudret Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Wow... I am sure they sound even better than they look. I think I' set this picture as wallpaper on my PC until the day I get a pair for myself. Enjoy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Kevin -- these look good! Did you ever get that problematic DAC back yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Nice looking. I would still love to hear a set of them. Just not enough to actually buy them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Craig: That's the great thing about this hobby! We can carefully select equipment most suited to our individual interests and tastes. Some prefer the push-pull route for a little more power; others are fine with the lower wattage and resolution of single-ended outputs. I think it's fun to share some of the characteristic weaknesses and strengths of both, while maintaining the premise that what is 'right' for one person, may not be the case for someone else. I have heard push-pull amplifiers that I really like, and I am also completely satisfied with what even less than a single watt is able to sound like through speakers with a rated output of 104dBs with a whole watt. I just really like having that amazing headroom provided by the other 2.5 watts I will probably never hear! Nice job on those Dynacos, by the way -- they really look great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Kevin: What do you think of those TJ meshplates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Cut-throat, They look great... and a big improvement over your 300b's??? I'd really be interested to year your take on the difference. Also, and this might be like a wude person coming in on the end of a conversation, because you may have had an earlier thread on this, but , what is the history on these 2A3's. Welborne Labs, right? As a tube newbie who'd like to own a pair sometime, it is slightly disturbing that such a fine pair of monoblocks would have a problem with hum that would need to be corrected. Of course, I'm relieved to hear that you got it worked out to your satisfaction. They do look wonderful!!! Regards, Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Kevin: I hope you don't mind my offering just a little bit on this last question... Welborne Labs is a small company that offered and continues to offer high quality single-ended amplifiers, preamps,etc. Customers have the option to either build the amplifiers in kit form, or pay more for a factory built version. The performance of any 'kit product' is going to depend largely on the experience and craftsmanship of the builder, and this is naturally where the reliability and quality of the product may possibly be compromised. Kevin's (aka Cut-Throat) amplifiers were built as kits -- not by Ron Welborne. Although the original builder did a fairly good job overall, he/she forgot to install a key part of the circuit. In addition, there were a number of connections that were less than adequately made. The repairs and changes that were done on the amps were thus directly related to the manner in which the kits were built -- they were not an intrinsic characteristic of the circuit or design. The Moondogs are a good example of a fairly conventional single-ended amp. Good quality parts are used, and that obviously helps to make for a pretty good amplifier -- subjectively better than other similar SET offerings now available. With extraordinarily sensitive speakers, this type of design may in fact exhibit a little more background noise than some other amplifiers. However, this tendency can be reduced a great deal by careful attention to dressing of the wiring -- including twisting all AC carrying leads (which can generate hum). Dee: You probably know that the Moondogs are no longer available, but Welborne Labs is now offering another similar amplifier. Having not heard these new products for myself, I can only guess that they would be as good as the Moondogs. That said, there are other options available! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Erik, That's the great thing about this hobby! We can carefully select equipment most suited to our individual interests and tastes. Some prefer the push-pull route for a little more power; others are fine with the lower wattage and resolution of single-ended outputs. I think it's fun to share some of the characteristic weaknesses and strengths of both, while maintaining the premise that what is 'right' for one person, may not be the case for someone else. I have heard push-pull amplifiers that I really like, and I am also completely satisfied with what even less than a single watt is able to sound like through speakers with a rated output of 104dBs with a whole watt. I just really like having that amazing headroom provided by the other 2.5 watts I will probably never hear! Nice job on those Dynacos, by the way -- they really look great! Thanks for the compliments and the very wise and fair way of putting your take on SET versus Push Pull ! Its all in the EAR of the beholder. What may satisfy one person may not another. This is why I never write any product off completely till I here it myself on my own system. Cheers Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 I guess I just sort of look at the issue as being one where SET and PP are players on the same side -- and not where one is necessarily being contested against the other. This of course is a global view. Despite the fact that I like a simple olive oil and lemon dressing on salad (and only a small amount at that), some prefer flooding amounts of creamy Ranch. They are different, but are both dressings nonetheless. I have a pair of restored Crafstmen integrated amps I use in a second system - these are a push-pull design, and I really, really like the way they sound. They sound pretty fine through lowthers, too. Anyway, whether one is pushing and pulling or single-endeding, the goal for me is music and fun. Cheers to both! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted June 4, 2003 Author Share Posted June 4, 2003 Dee, Erik did a good job explaining the Hum issue that I had on my Moondogs. I would like to add that the Builder of my amps probably did not forget to add the Rectifier circuit, but actually did this on purpose. I have heard that applying A/C to the heaters of these tubes, may make the amp quicker and give better dynamics. - And maybe, if he was using less sensitive speakers, the hum did not bother him as much as me. There are people here on this forum that have done some very different things with their Moondogs - And none of them should be considered a problem - just a Modification. As far as my 300b vs. 2a3 - I can only guess here. I have heard that the lower you go in wattage in SET - the more pure the SET midrange (or something like that) - 300b > 2a3 > 45. There are a lot of SET folks that are in love with 45 - with only about 1.5 watts. At first I thought that since I had very Sensitive speakers 104db Belles that they were better matched to the 2a3 than the 300b. But then I hookedup the moondogs to some 89db monitors and I also preferred the 2a3's to the 300b's. Whatever I'm giving up in terms of power, I am making up for in more transparent midrange - Which is where most of the magic is for me. Anyway this is a very subjective topic, and you have to make up your own mind. Erik, The TJ Meshplates in my opinion are a step up from the KR's. The amps seem to be quicker and more dynamic and transparent. In the looks department - there is no contest - The glowing TJ meshplates are much sexier than the KR's. Strange thing I just noticed Erik, We both registered for this Klipsch Fourm on 10/9/02 - We'll have to celebrate on 10/9/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Kevin, Enjoy your new babies . I hope that they sound as good as they look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Those 'dogs look nice on the marble tops as well! I just received a NOS pair of AVVT 2A3M's ... They look very similar to the TJ's, white base, big bottles. They sure are beautiful. I won't have a chance to give them a listen until the Horuses are delivered in mid-June ... We're currently waiting on the cobalt OPT's (in transit somewhere, probably in Canadian customs) and then it's a wrap. Jeff Lessard is bringing Edster's Horuses as well and we'll ship them to Ed from Boston. Anyway, these meshplate 2A3's are supposed to have a better low-end as well as the mid-range. Sure are purty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Thanks for that reclarification on the rectifier circuit, Kevin -- I remember talking about that with you. The builder of your amps set the heaters up in the same way that has been done for a long, long while; and he knew, too, that one of the other wires we removed was probably the center tap for the filament supply. There are even filters we could have made that would have quieted the hum, but might not have been as effective as using DC over AC. I just feel that even with indirectly heated tubes it's adviseable to use DC, since there exists the possibility of leakage, etc. Those meshplates do look nice! Thanks for sharing in this, Chris! Ed sent me a picture of your amps and the Pantheon preamp and they look fabulous. I also waiting for the grid and plate chokes JF has ordered from me from Magnaquest. I'm going to do what I can to build his preamp, and I already have a few of the parts for that, including the chassis. For cost reasons, I have ordered the permalloy OPTs, and those, along with tube sockets should be here soon. I look forward to your impression of the Horus once you get them! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 have you rolled rectifiers? settled on the GZ37s huh? what else did you try? nice looking amps my friend! regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Cut-Throat, Great looking Moondogs! I've been spending the last week with the 2A3 KR's on loan from Edster, and plan to post my impressions soon. Sunnysal, Of the GZ37 and GZ34 rectifiers I have tried so far, The Mullard "Fat base" GZ34 and the Mullard "metal base" GZ34 are standouts. The GZ37's are also excellent but like the other two mentioned above, do take a little time to sound their best. JPL stated he prefers the Mullard GZ34 in his 2A3 Horus design so I'm not sure how it will sound in your PP design. With less in the signal path, rectifier do have an influence. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted June 4, 2003 Author Share Posted June 4, 2003 Tony, Actually I have not thought about rolling Rectifiers yet. What I was trying to accomplish was to get my Moondogs as close to the "last Dogs" being offered on the Welborne site. In case you had not seen these - They go for a mere $7500 and according to Ron Welborne were endowed with the best parts Money could buy. Mine currently have the exact same tubes, with the exception of the Power Tube - The last Dogs had the 300b version of the TJ Meshplates, but they were made before the 2A3 TJ mesh came out. They are still available, if someone here wants to part with $7500. I'll bet he'd take 7 Grand Even! Thanks Guy, Chris, Jazzman. And Chris that is Granite Inlays they are sitting on. Picture of the "last Dog" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 sure is PURDY! for fun you shold try rollin' the rectifiers, as I said I was amazed at the difference it made in the sound of my amps. YMMV as you well know...jazman I tried some GZ34s, not mullards don't have any, just some russian and chinese and they did not tended to thin out the sound compared with the GZ37 or U52, didn't float my boat in my amp...maybe some mullards would be different; anyone want to send me one in trade for some sylvania 6SN7s? regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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