dodger Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Greetings I have been contacted by a person going through divorce. 299 C with output tubes only, sold pre-amp tubes on eBay. Thoughts or opinions (I am not that familiar with Scott, but since quite a number of Forum members own, I wonder if there's something I'm missing.) Any quirky pre-amp tubes in this unit? whl248@yahoo.com I am open to opinions. Thanks Win (unless there's a good 2125......) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 I don't want to get in the middle of any fueds here, but I've heard Craig say a number of times that the 299C is a great amp and that the only downside is the tubes are more costly than the A or B. I specifically asked him about one when I was first looking for tubes. Can't we all just get along? I, personally, love all you guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 There are some other differences between a 299C and the A/B for one the complete lack of adjustment of the AC balance for the phase splitters this does not relate to low distortion !! You will need very well balanced and high quality 6U8's to achieve low distortion the Ryan is speaking of ! Next he will tell us that Scott somehoiw magically designed the resistors and such to adjust for every brand and strength 6U8. The Class A statement is bullsh!t also the 299C is biased on the cool side of the 7591 spec ! Bias and plate voltage is what determains Class A or A/B and so on. Its all bullsh!t !! I have at least 3 299C/LK-72 amps running around this forum and they are great amps don't get me wrong but Ryan is a endless fountain of misinformation as always. I don't have to get along with him the last I knew this was a free country and a OPEN FORUM !! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Win Now that I got that out of the way. Do you have photos or any other information on the amp ?? If its basically stock and without tubes I would consider that a high price for that amp. Who is to say the output tubes are even good ?? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted June 3, 2003 Author Share Posted June 3, 2003 Greetings: I appreciate the input and will mull it over the next 20 minutes, along with trying for a lower price. I sense some anymousity that is understandble with audio enthusiasts. I can also be very opinionated. From both, I sense the amp is a good one with the right tubes. That I will be sure of, at 50 I have my own stock and some good resources. I also have the knowledge of the good tubes, I believe my MX110 takes a 6U8, so I may be set. I appreciate both of your replies, you each make valid points. They will be taken into account. It is neat that we can be passionate about our equipment. That's part of Audio and part of life. My sincere appreciation and thanks to those that replied. We all will get along. We can agree to disagree, but in the end the best sound is what we're striving for and I thank you for helping me with a different brand. Peace to you today and for all of the todays to come. Win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 ---------------- On 6/3/2003 3:30:51 PM NOSValves wrote: I don't have to get along with him the last I knew this was a free country and a OPEN FORUM !! Craig ---------------- Sorry. Fight away! I like a good rumble as much as the next guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Win? Is that your name? How do you like your C-20? Is it in your setup now? Reason I'm asking is I was using a counterpoint with my 60's before and am now thinking about having the C-20 gone over and using it instead. What's your opinion? Thanks for your time, Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted June 3, 2003 Author Share Posted June 3, 2003 Hey Randy: Yes, the first name is Win - it's short for Winford (1st girl I went steady with - Winifred, same class in school: Winford, Winifred, Wilford, Wilfred - we drove that teacher nuts! Resorted to last names. Anyway, I love the C20. I had it gone over, replaced all the tubes - use Telefunkens. The Loudness Control is a nice touch, having the choice of 0, 300 HZ or 400 HZ for the bass is great. The L + R output is perfect for a sub if you want to "Y" and the ability to adjust the cartridge output on the back is also a nice touch. I have A/B'd mine vs a C 22 and I'm happy with the C 20. No offense against C 22 owners. If you want more info or need schematic copies - whl248@yahoo.com. Hope this helps. Craig and Ryan, please don't think I'm trying to force you 2 to get along. I'm appreciative that both of you took the time to make contact with me. Win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Ryan, I don't need you to tell me the difference. The fact is that AC balance is prefered for proper adjustment when a tube like a 6U8 is used rather then a dual triode for phase inversion. Scott just cheapened up on of there later models to be competitive. Even the head engineer at Scott throughout the entire tube era liked the 299A/B best because it was the best overall design ! You talk the talk but have no clue what your saying. Anyone can copy what they read out of a book or off the Scott website but as usual you do not understand what it all means !! Your the one that needs to prove something hear not me. I have many many happy customers where are yours ?? Every person I know that has dealt with you arrives at the same conclusion !! Should I start repeating it all ? Take your beloved 222C/D or 299C/D fire up your scope and check the AC input to each output tube while rolling in different 6U8's with different test values and you will see they don't Jive ! Its a compromise to save a buck nothing more nothing less ! It does work well but far from perfect. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Whats the difference between 299-Cs that run 6UBs and ones that run 7199 inverter tubes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Not much really the pin out is different. The 7199 is a tube that is actually designed for audio while the 6U8 is actually a tube used originally for TV and was found to do a good job for audio also the 6BL8, 6GH8 and 6AN8 are the same story TV use originally . Good NOS 7199 cost a good bit more then 6U8's that do a nice job. A amp that uses 7199 can be rewired pretty easy to use a 6u8 and the reverse is also true. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Hey Craig one more question, why does my 299-C only have one ceramic "can" cap ( if that is what it is ) back behind the rectifier tube? Others I have seen have 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 I didnt know they were 35 watts per channel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Oh, Ya, I love all this stuff, come on guys don't stop now, it's just gettin good!! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 bkrop, I think your talking about the dropping resistor. Some scotts have none of these on top of the chassis. They call them standy resistors. I wish they used them on all of the amps. Those resistors get hot and really produce some heat buildup under the chassis. But its not a real large issue. Your 299C also has one less filter can for a bias supply then a 299A/B. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dflip Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Since the 7591's are included, that leaves you with having to purchase (4) 12AX7's, (2) 6U8's, and a GZ34 rectifier. None of these are expensive, unless you want an exotic tube, like Telefunken (which makes little to no difference in sound). --------------- I have one of Craig's LK-72's and it works great. I have used Jan Philips and Telefunken 6U8's and even swapped in a pair of Dumont 7687's. The Telefunkens produce a sound closest to a well tweaked solid state system, very good clarity and more forward in their presentation, but you can hear every instrument. The Dumonts are very nice, more relaxed in presentation, good detail, a great late night relaxing tube. Then there is the Jan Philips which work, but do not provide the same level of sound, but cost a lot less money. I may not know how to wire this amp together, but I can hear differences in sound, tubes do make a difference in the sound that you hear. As long as I don't have to watch Don King promote the pay for view, I can tolerate the ending of the ceasefire. It was nice to see the two of you agreeing occassionally, but I guess the Hatfields and McCoys are at it again. Remember guys, don't shoot until you see the whites of his eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Your the one that needs to prove something hear not me. I have many many happy customers where are yours ?? Every person I know that has dealt with you arrives at the same conclusion !! Should I start repeating it all ? -------------------------------------------------------- Well, I'll stick up for Ryan's work. He restored my 299C and did it in a professional manner. He was happy to advise me on parts choices (ie-where not to waste my money), and other little questions I had. It was done at reasonable cost and in a timely manner as well. As far as you two pissing on each other all the time, I really have no opinion. Also, I really don't know where you got the idea that Ryan hates Klipsch. I've never seen him badmouth Klipsch and was very complimentary of my Khorns in my dealings with him. As far as Ryan talking the talk, he does seem to do THAT better than NOSV, doesn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Ryan, get on the same page here !! I am not saying that a AC balance pot should be added to a cathodyne phase splitter what I'm saying is the cathodyne phase splitter is a cheaper and inferior way of doing the same thing as a floating paraphase with AC balance !! You need to get out a scope and check the AC signal entering the output tubes of a cathodyne phase splitter amp and do it with various tubes in various stages of there life expectancy or health and you will see that imbalanced signal is entering the output tubes hence distortion the signals indeed are inverted but should be Identical on the scope size and shape wise. If the tube is perfect and the world was perfect this setup would indeed work perfect but without adjustment it does not !! What happens when the 2 15K resistors drift in value for instance ?? Face it the cathodyne phase splitter is cheaper not better !! and the cathodyne is much more reliable. Cost wise, the cathodyne and paraphase circuits are equal. How could you even say this ?? The cost of the AC Balance pot and the attached resistors alone probably double the cost for the floating paraphase with AC balance. You talk the talk but its all gibberish !! Craig Oh and you finally dug up one happy customer !! He does talk the talk pretty good if you like Techno gibberish !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 ---------------- On 6/4/2003 2:31:09 PM NOSValves wrote: Oh and you finally dug up one happy customer !! He does talk the talk pretty good if you like Techno gibberish !! ---------------- He didn't dig me up. You both talk the talk, it's just too bad you both talk so much $hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Your a idiot I never said one word of that !! It is inferior because it has no adjustment period mark cheap or not !! Although it is cheaper to implement !! Higher wattage what kind of bunk is that ? They have the exact same wattage resistors on both circuits you are full of sh!t from head to toe !! Tell me Ryan how much does a 1 watt 15K resistor cost ? 20 cents Tell me Ryan how much a 100K 1 watt resistor cost ? 20 cents Both amps circuits use 2 of these 1 watt babies and all others are 1/2 watt !! Now the floating paraphase with AC balance uses a extra pot and 2 extra resistors so which one costs more to implement you moron !! I was just down checking my 208 power amp which uses your beloved cheap cathodyne circuit just to verify that you are a Idiot and you know what Yup its true !! I put in 3 different sets of 6U8's and got back 3 different result on the scope. None of them were horrible but none of them perfect and some off by a good margin !! You ask All yeah, instead of saying "size and shape wise on the scope", how about trying amplitude and frequency? Because there are many people in here reading this that do not understand your techno jive talk so I put things plain and simple in a way it can be understood by all. I'm not here pumping my chest up professing to be some know it all engineer which we both know you are not. If you were indeed a engineer then why do you wire houses for a living ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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