ben. Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 I just recieved a 430 (purchased from BillH) last night. Eager to put it through its paces, I slapped it on the Khorns in the studio. It sounded respectable, but could not (expectedly) hold a candle to the 299C. In every way the Scott blew its doors off when paired with the Khorns. It did, however outperform the other SS gear I tried with the Khorns (none of which could by any stretch be considered high-end). I could go on with subjective observations, but I won't. Keep in mind, I know this is not a fair comparison in any way. I had planned on using the HK with less revealing speakers in the first place. It will probably end up running the outdoor system or bedroom setup. I haven't tried yet, but I have a feeling they will mate beautifully with my HH Scott 2-ways. I just bought another off eBay, and may buy another yet to use all three as power for the HT. You just can't beat the value of these babies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfz28 Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 The hk430 is saposed to be a bass monster,I dont have one so I cant say myself. How does the scotts bass performace compare to the hk430, does the hk430 have a better bottom end? try setting both amps to there flat setings with no loudness controll on and can you tell me which one you prefer I am just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 Actually the 299C with its 7591 output tubes are a bass monster also they can really pump it out !! I feel almost to a fault but I bet with his Khorns folded horns it helps tighten it up ! So this would be a Bass monster to Bass monster shoot out. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 The Hk 430 for $50 or less is a tremendous value. I've got one and while I prefer the NAD's sound over the 430 ever so slightly, when you compare their relative worth's on eBays I'd go with the 430. Mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfz28 Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 I am almost ready to try one of those hk430 and compare it to my scott 299a just to see the difference between them.I guess being from the show me state I just cant stand not to compare the two.I still listen to my vintage sansui g-7700 once in a while but it just aint as good as the scott. craig does the scott 299c with the 7591 output tubes have a way better bottom end then the scott 299a and 299b with the 7189 el84 output tubes? Is there a night and day difference between the 2 units in there bass performance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flux Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 You get what you pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggs Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 ---------------- On 6/6/2003 10:13:58 PM arfz28 wrote: I am almost ready to try one of those hk430 and compare it to my scott 299a just to see the difference between them.I guess being from the show me state I just cant stand not to compare the two.I still listen to my vintage sansui g-7700 once in a while but it just aint as good as the scott. craig does the scott 299c with the 7591 output tubes have a way better bottom end then the scott 299a and 299b with the 7189 el84 output tubes? Is there a night and day difference between the 2 units in there bass performance? ---------------- If you're anywhere near Kansas City you can borrow one of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggs Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 ---------------- On 6/6/2003 10:52:33 PM Flux wrote: You get what you pay for. ---------------- I disagree. I paid $300 a few years ago for my Denon. I bought the 630 on a whim a few months ago for $67. In 2-channel playback the Denon can't hold a candle to the H/K, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 From my experience of the 430 and 299A with Cornwalls... there is no comparison, just not even close, between the 430 and the 299A. A 430 is good, cheap SS but tubes it ain't. I'm talking overall sound top to bottom. But, your musical tastes may differ from mine (as most folks' do). Mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfz28 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 diggs wrote,If you're anywhere near Kansas City you can borrow one of mine Diggs, Thanks for the offer to borrow the hk-430 but Im on the other side of the state . flux wrote,You get what you pay for. The sansui cost me 600 bucks some 20 plus years ago, I got less than that in scott 299a, redone by Craig to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Arf, I'm trying to pull everything together so we can have a horns 'n tubes session every other month in St. Louis. I just need to get everything moved to the new house. I have both a late 70's La Scala and Belle set, and I'm running them with a 299C and a HK 630. My evaluation is quite skewed, as the La Scalas that I have done the majority of my listening were in the middle of a hard plaster and cinderblock basement room with poured concrete floor. I started off with a Crown Power Line 4 and a retro Nakamichi 420 preamp(PWK liked to run a 420 with a Crown d75 on one of his setups) The sound was horrible and contained no base. Even than, however, the LSs impressed two of my audio engineer friends with the clarity and rapid attack they showed with difficult to impossible tracks they hand selected. My wife didn't much care for the volume levels we attempted in listening and testing the LSs until the friends brought their equipment upstairs. Hearing them chat about the lack of spurious reasonances and other odd harmonics that crop up in other houses due to loose ducts, piping and other sound shorted equipment, the wife smiled and informed them that her dad certainly had built the house well fifty years ago. Jim Cornell has been raving the gospel re. the HK430, so I decided to pick up a X30 on eBay.(I still have some fun pictures of my college days partying with my HK430 and Nak gear in prominent place.) The 630 I got is in good shape, so it booted the Crown and - lalallala - we now have bass. Tight, handles all the Midnight Oil base with aplomb, slaps smiles on my friends' mugs, and shakes the doors base. It sounds natural and warm, but it still isn't there. Got a good deal on a 299c again on eBay, slap that on the LSs, and wow! It sounds wonderful. The 299c has not been massaged in any fashion, fairly tatty to be honest, and it beats the HK630 in 8 out of 10 categories we trot equipment through. It even wins the award from my wife.... with the Crown, she didn't want to listen to music at any time while doing laundry, because it sounded too harsh. With the HK630, she would listen to music if it was on. In both cases she wanted to be trained on how to turn the stereo off. With the 299c, she made me train her how to turn the stereo on. I asked her if she wanted to see how to go off as well (stereo- not me ) and she said it wouldn't be necessary. She liked the way it sounded too much to turn it off I can't say this brief synopsis is a level playing field. All three setups convienently show how brilliant Heritage Klipsch is. I would need to get all three setups in a good room, set up the amps so they are relatively flat frequency response, and then get parallel listening levels to do a good listen. I think part of our favorable assessment for tube amps is due to their weighted reponse pattern in the mid base and low midrange/rolloff as they near 20khz. Either way, a dog setup with the La Scalas is on par with my one friend's 10 grand setup in a accoustically perfect room specifically designed and tweaked for his baby. Witnessing an audio engineer drool over Klipsch is a wonderful thing! Cheers, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 arfz28, In my Opinion and what I tried to hint at without getting attacked is that the 7591 amps do have more bass and mid range its the 7591 tube it just has this signature. I personally think its a colored sound myself not honest if you know what I mean. I'm in no way saying its bad but we all know that there is a very large following for EL-84/7189 based amps all over the net and the reason is they are very well balanced from top to bottom great sound. Trust me if I thought the 7591 tube based amps were a better mate with Klipsch I would be the first to be trumpeting them. Some people may love the 7591 tube with there Klispch and that is fine for there ears all I can do is share what I here and this of coarse is subjective ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 A little info for a newbie requested: Just to make sure I'm understanding the tube designations... the EL84/7189 is the output tube for the 299a&b? the 7591 is the output tube for the 299c? Is there an EL**designation for the 7591? Also, is the 7591 the original tube for the 299c? I have read some threads that talk about a replacement tube for the 299c, which is workable, but requires leaving the case open because of it's size. Which one is that. Appreciate any help here. I run across these tube designations often upon reading reviews on the net, and haven't got them straight in my vocabulary. Thanks. As always, regards, forum folks. Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted June 7, 2003 Author Share Posted June 7, 2003 ---------------- On 6/7/2003 9:18:00 AM DaddyDee wrote: A little info for a newbie requested: Just to make sure I'm understanding the tube designations... the EL84/7189 is the output tube for the 299a&b? the 7591 is the output tube for the 299c? Is there an EL**designation for the 7591? Also, is the 7591 the original tube for the 299c? I have read some threads that talk about a replacement tube for the 299c, which is workable, but requires leaving the case open because of it's size. Which one is that. Appreciate any help here. I run across these tube designations often upon reading reviews on the net, and haven't got them straight in my vocabulary. Thanks. As always, regards, forum folks. Dee ---------------- As far as the low end vs the 299C, both have plenty. The extension seemed to be comparable, but the quality of the 299C bass response was far superior. I was actually expecting the HK to have more impact in the mid-bass, but I didn't percieve that to be the case. Bang-for-buck, I think both pieces are outstanding examples, but the HK pales in comparison on a revealing speaker like a Khorn. Daddydee- The Scott 299 and 299B use 7189 & EL84 tubes The Scott 299C and D used 7591 tubes, which are no longer in production (NOS being VERY expensive). The 7591A is and was electrically equivalent, but are slightly wider and taller physically. One can't (to my knowledge) use the original cabinet with these tubes, but they can be obtained relatively cheaply. They are, however still more costly than EL84/7189. The Electro-Harmonix 7591A is very popular and should set you back ~$60-$80 for a matched quad. Check eBay- paypaul always has some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Sheltie Dave, When you say your wife didn't want you to bother to teach her how to turn the Scott 299C off, that says it all to me right there. No audio adjectives necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 DaddyDee In all actuality the EL84 and the 7189 are not the same exact tube but from the same design the 7189 is designed to withstand more plate voltage. The 7591 was a american designed and manufactured tube and has no euro desination. here is how it works US NAME 6BQ5 = EURO Name EL84 these can be used in a Scott but they will be getting more voltage then there rated to handle. US NAME 7189\7189A = EURO Name EL84M from sovtek no one else is making a current 7189 US NAME 7591\7591A = Euro nothing Electro Hamronics makes a 7591A that is 2 large for most Scott's to allow a standard case to be used. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfz28 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 SHELTIE DAVE WROTE Arf, I'm trying to pull everything together so we can have a horns 'n tubes session every other month in St. Louis. I just need to get everything moved to the new house. I have both a late 70's La Scala and Belle set, and I'm running them with a 299C and a HK 630. That would be fun to get a few people together for a listening session, I am about an hours drive from St Louis. I would like to hear your setup, maybe I could bring my scott 299a up and see how it sounds on the lascalas and belles. If you are interested in lisining at my house sometime let me know, I have a set of 84 k-horns and useing a scott 299a to power them with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted June 10, 2003 Author Share Posted June 10, 2003 Sunday I set the 430 up with those old HH Scott speakers. They make a much better match than the Khorns. Those old sealed two ways can put out a fair amount of bass. It's not really well articulated, but has a nicely colored 70's sound. The tone controls on the 430 can are easily tweakable for any recording and volume level. Pat Metheny and Sinatra/Jobim are all I've had time to audition as of yet, but man they sound good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myhamish Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Up in the attic, I've been running a pair of Cornwalls with a Harmon Kardon Citation 12 power amp (mid '70's pawn shop find at 60 watts per side with a dual power supply) using the Marantz 2238 preamp outputs send the signal. With the Cornwalls in from the corners a bit on a 1:2:1 ratio, the sound was nice, bright and full with deep bass that don't need subs at all ( unlike Heresy's and LaScalas ). Before I got hurt, I hauled the Heresys up out of the living room to make room for the LaScalas and just parked them on top of the Cornwallsin the attic. Then it dawned on me, that I could 'y' the pre-amp out back into the Marantz to drive the Heresys as well as the Cornwalls basically with separate power amps. Well, I tell you, the theory of more violins being better than bigger violins works here. The clarity and definition just opened up the room with no strain or muddiness at any frequencies. If anybody else can double up on power amps, and speakers, try it and let me know what you can think. All this is relative right now anyway, as I'm anchored to the main floor with a crotch to ankle brace and walker. By the way, I run Crowns all the way with my main system and have no complaints other than the lights going dim. Hamish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted June 12, 2003 Author Share Posted June 12, 2003 Spun some Chet Baker and Massive Attack last night. This setup is proving to quite satisfying. Even from a cheapo discman (I know!) it sounds very good. Not reference quality, but euphonic to be sure. From Chet's trumpet to the low end on "Protection" by MA, I'm still grinnin'. It can thump when I crank it, or it can be polite for night-night with a few quick knob turns. Thanks for the deal, Bill!! Hope you're diggin the Sansui, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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