t-man Posted May 8, 2001 Share Posted May 8, 2001 I got one of those analoge rad-shack SPL meters some time ago, and read all the directions numerous times. I'm still not sure how to use this in order to properly configure my HT system. How is this exactly done. Namely, how do I use it to properly adjust my subwoofer? Which weighting setting do I use? I have my sub hooked up only via speaker wire, so I no longer get a test tone for the suboofer. Thanks, T-man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 8, 2001 Share Posted May 8, 2001 Use C weighting and slow response. Sit in your favorite spot and activate the pink noise generator. With the meter pointed at the TV and slightly up, set the output of all channels to the same level. Since you are not using the LFE outs, set the sub by playing music and adjusting the sub so its output is the same as the main speaker's woofer. Hold the meter close to the drivers to get a reading. Then tweak by ear. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobG Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 One more thing. Use 75 dB as your target SPL. Get all channels to play at 75 dB and you are good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workin' Stiff Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Don't most people set their subwoofers to 81 db? I had mine at 90 db until I got the Video Essential DVD. My reciever produced the test tones but not for the subwoofer. I liked it at 90 db but turned it down to 81 db anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-man Posted May 9, 2001 Author Share Posted May 9, 2001 This is all helpful. Up till now I have been using 75 db, but I start with my mains as reference point, and keep them at 0 db. This only moves my needle a tiny bit (like neg 4-6). Are you (BobG) saying that I should increase the reciever's settings so that the needle on the meter is at 0 for all channels? Aren't I just increasing overall gain by not having my most efficient speakers at 0 db? When I switch from stereo to 5 channel, won't I then have to turn the volume down significantly?? Also, I use the test tones from the Denon's receiver. Do I need to get one of those video essentials or Avia discs? Another thing. Everybody always talks about how the test tones should match across the speakers. Funny thing is that my mains produce a different sounding test-tone. Eg. Right test tone sounds different from left, and volume can't fix this. Is this normal? Thanks, T-man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Couple of points. "This only moves my needle a tiny bit (like neg 4-6). " Keep in mind that a 6dB reduction is a SIGNIFICANT reduction in volume. It will sound a LOT less loud. A 10dB difference is generally said to be "twice as loud" (whatever that means...). A plus or minus 1dB variance, if covering a wide enough frequency range, is VERY noticeable. "Right test tone sounds different from left, and volume can't fix this." This is not unusual, and is most likely due to the placement of the speakers within the room. If the left speaker is closer to or further from the side or front wall than the right speaker, then the reflections, cancellations and reinforcements caused by the room will be different, and the speakers will sound different. Depending upon the room and the placement, they can sound a LOT different. First thing to do is experiment with placement - play a signal in mono through both speakers, and move them around until they sound as similar as you can get them. As balancing the sound, the idea is that whatever the reference level you decide to use, you want all the speakers to produce that same level when sitting in your chair. This gives you a starting point where applying the same signal to each speaker produces the same sound at your listening location. Then the HT processor can adjust the front to back balance however it sees fit. Whether you increase the volume of the rear speakers or decrease the volume of the front speakers to get them to match doesn't really matter. The test tones from the receiver are fine for basic tuning, but the Avia and Video Essential discs have a lot of cool stuff that will help you maximise the audio and video performance of your system. ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workin' Stiff Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 Let me add a few comments so people don't think I'm crazy. When I had my sub at 91db, it sounded good at low to medium volume (volume dial at 0900). Around reference level (1015-1030) although it still sounded good, the bass becomes overpowering. I think the key to good sound is balance. Maybe the 81db setting is a common preference for HT medium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-man Posted May 10, 2001 Author Share Posted May 10, 2001 Well, I tried it again, and I realized that my meter does not have 75db, but jumps from 70 to 80. Which should I use? Also, the slightest tilt/variation in aiming the meter gives definite difference. The manual says to hold it straight up. Should I do that, or point it ahead or to the TV.. Thanks, Troy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacevedo Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 t-man, I have the same SPL meter (as most people do) and it doesn't matter whether you set it to 70 or 80. It might be easier if you set it to 80, and read down from 80 to 75 (-5). This is good because you can go from 70 - 86, but if you set it at 70, you can only go up to 76. But again, it doesn't matter, the levels are the same, it just depends on how you like to read it. Also, I think you are supposed to hold the SPL meter straight up, so that it is perpindicular to the speakers. I guess this more closely represents the levels that your ear would hear, and that is what we are trying to get. Just like your ears aren't pointed at the speakers, neither should the mic on the meter. I am still not sure on whether you should put your volume control at reference level (00 on our Denon receivers) and tune from there. I guess it is not that different from setting the volume at -13 (or whatever volume you want) and adjusting. I think the volume on the Denon adjusts the max value it can go to based on your settings for the speaker levels. So it may not matter. But I personally don't like seeing my levels at +8 or -8. I think they should be as close to 0 as possible, and adjusting only the channels that truly need a slight bump or decrease. To me, what is the point of turning the receiver to 00, only to decrease the level of your speakers to -7 because they are so efficient. Why not just adjust the master volume to the correct level and adjust the levels between the speakers. Then you might have a +1, +3 or -1. Bryan ------------------ Thanks, Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 Hi Bryan - Don't know about you but the last time I put my Denon volume at 0, I needed band-aids on my ears to stop the bleeding (kidding). I don't think I've ever had mine above -5, and that just about peeled the paint off the walls. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-man Posted May 10, 2001 Author Share Posted May 10, 2001 dougdrake, ditto here. All at 60wpc mind you. I can't watch a movie greater than -14 or so. Normal listening at about -20, even though this is still too loud for my wife. t-man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacevedo Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 Yeah - on my 3801 (105 W all around) I can't go higher than -10. It is way too loud for any normal listening. I usually listen to music about -20 to -15 - but that is if I want to really crank it. If I try to turn it up to 0 - I am afraid my ears will break! I know the speakers and the receiver can handle it - but I am just not that brave! I was at a friends house last night, and she has the Onkyo 575X with some JBL N Series speakers. Nice setup (as I recommended it to her in her price range), but it really made me appreciate my Klipsch and Denon setup. My receiver has so much freaking headroom and dynamics - it is unbelievable! And matched with these awesome Klipsch speakers - audio heaven! ------------------ Thanks, Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Palm Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 Hi y'all! Just got my db meter and you've really helped me. I've got a Kenwood VR-307,La Scala fronts, and Heresy rears. Does the distance adjustment for the speakers really matter? Iread once that if you use delay that it muddies up the soundfield. The manual says it delays the signals so all the sound from the speakers arrive at the same time. I can't tell any difference. But I want my ht to sound as good as possible. Should I delay or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 lp, i've found a slight positive difference using delay on the ht modes. i'm about 12 ft. from the tube, center & fronts. i set the fronts to 12ft, the center to 8 ft & the rears on 6ft. this seems to put the voices/center sounds more into the tv screen & makes for a longer soundstage in the rear (good for hall sound on music 2 if u listen to those modes). though i don't know if the fronts are actually delayed from some set point or that it's just the other channels are delayed relative to where u set the fronts. i'd say experiment w/ it on your chosen modes/material after u have the sound all adjusted & see if it does anything for ye. p.s., i need to get that sound meter before this thread disappears ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable Marantz SR-8000 receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Monster MCX Biwires Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver(stereo power amp for rf-3) Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics direct drive turntable Sega Genesis game player Sub: None yet rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 Hey Boa!!! Do that... the meter really can make a difference. Like your fellow "No Life" BobG said, set the analog meter (stay away from the digital) on 75 and then set every speaker individually to "Rock On" and together they will make you PROUD ! HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 Well, I'll throw a reply on for you Boa, so the thread doesn't disappear. Last summer when I upgraded to the Denon AVR4800/POA5200, I went to Rat Shack to get the SPL meter. The guy behind the counter said he was out of the analog models, and that they were not being made any more. So, I ponied up the extra funds and got the digital one. I think it's a good unit, but why do people prefer the analog vs. the digital one? As far as all you other Denon owners, I, too, listen to HT around -15 to -20. Any louder and the wife and dogs leave the room. The Matrix, U-571, T2, Das Boot, etc are quite impressive at that level. Music is about the same, unless I am alone and I need some volume. Set the volume at 0 and my Forte IIs, and the other 5 Klipsch speakers, just thump! Have tried a bit above 0, and with a SPL meter, I was getting numbers around 110dB (if I remember correctly; my eyes were watering with joy!!!) with good music like Eagles' Hell Freezes Over "Life in the Fast Lane," or other similar stuff. Thank you Klipsch!! Boa- Thanks for an interesting idea about changing the delays. My system is about the same distance as yours, so I'll do some tweaking and see how that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 jhawk - I'm just guessing that the analog is easier to read than the digital, for the same reason that analog gauges in a car are easier to read than digital ones. Our minds process pictures faster than data (unlike mechanical computers) so it is easier for us to tell what speed we are going by a glance at the analog speedometer than reading the digits. If you haven't tried this yet, get a DVD with the THX trailer on it, set your Denon at 0, and let 'er rip. Be sure there are no innocent bystanders! Also, you may need to change your underwear afterwards. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-man Posted May 17, 2001 Author Share Posted May 17, 2001 DD, Are you crazy!?!? That inro is so frick'n loud. I could never get it at 0, without breaking something (sheetrock, window, pictures, ears, subwoofer)! Of course, my KG 5.5s are pretty efficient, but my denon has only 60 wpc, and I still don't think my system could ever take that kind of pounding. The loudest I have ever gone was -4 with the Toy Story 2 sceen where buzz blows all those machines away just before entering Zurg's secret chamber. The sound of those chamber doors openning is so cool... oh yea...I am sitting only about 9 feet from the mains, so that may have something to do with the levels. This leads me to my next question...My mains are about 9 feet apart, which forms a pretty impressive distance balance. Almost an equilateral triangle. Since I have this, should I toe in my speakers about 60 degrees, or leave them straight-on? The right speaker is in a corner, so it gets early reflections. I currently have both toed in about 10-20 degrees. This message has been edited by t-man on 05-17-2001 at 12:01 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 That's right t-man.The 5.5's should be toed-in in such a manner that their path crosses just in front of the listening position.Someone commented a while back that they used a laser to aim their speakers!Cool!I'm actually not sure if you would need to be terribly precise,especially at 9'.I've tried fine tuning my fronts and it didn't make much difference.But it doesn't hurt to experiment!BTW, how are you liking your 5.5's? Got mine out of storage recently and listened for a little while.They sounded great.Great mids and surprisingly good bass.Hint:try leaving spike caps in place on front spikes,and removing caps on rear spikes.Angles speaker upward just slightly and improves bass.Or while playing music,get on knees and move head up and down slowly listening for the zones.You'll find you can decrease the highs and increase the lows by slightly adjusting speaker angle.Hope you enjoy em! Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 jhawk, Doug... The analog version is a bit more accurate when reading small +/- dB variations. According to what "they" tell me, anyway... ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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