kjohnsonhp Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Has anyone tested a sub $500 CD player like the Rega Planet against a $3,000 CD player or a nice DAC/interpolation engine? I've read and heard others describe the benefits as dramatic. I was reading some mag recently that was talking about the benefits of a good digital source. I believe the message was that at a minumum it was advised to have a nice DAC & upsampling engine (I think the article highlighted the Musical Fidelity A3.24 196K Upsampling DAC which sells used for about $800 which was a good value compared to $2-$3,000 CD players which is another option). I've also heard the DAC/interpolation engine from Perpetual Technology which seems to be a notable improvement over something like my low-end SONY CD/SACD player (although using my CD player as the transport). There was a recent TAS comparison between $3k CD players and the $499 Phillips SACD/CD/DVD-V player which highlighted the benefits. Bottom line is that I'm intrigued by the benefits of improving my digital source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 KJ, I'm with you! I love the sound of vinyl, but hate it's drawbacks (noise, scratches, high frequency loss @ inner grooves, etc). I would settle for something close to vinyl...SACD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 I have. I compared a Rega Planet to a variety of approx $3000 (retail, new) CD players. One, the Audio Note CD1 (not the 1.X) was very close in sound to the Rega. So close that I couldn't justify keeping a high buck player. The other I tried, the Theta Miles, was what I would describe as marginally better. But better enough to miss the difference if it were gone. IMHO, there is a fairly sharp knee-curve in price/performance of digital sources. I would be hard pressed to believe that a $25,000 CD player sounds even fractionally better than my Miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted August 10, 2003 Author Share Posted August 10, 2003 How about this unit as the ideal optical media player for KLIPSCH 2-channel and HT? Sony 9000ES w/Signature Truth mods = ~$2000. * SACD, DVD-V, Red Book CD. There seems to be a benefit in upgrading from a $350-$400 Rega. I was thinking of spending about $1k and my first nomination is used PT Gear: http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?dgtlconv&1065678334 The Theta Miles would be another option. I guess I would have to buy a couple and resell the one I liked least. At $2k: Sony 9000ES w/Signature Truth mods = ~$2000. Sony 999ES w/Signature Truth mods = ~$1900. It's interesting that the Rega Planet 2000 seems to be a notable improvement over the old Rega but on this board some prefer the old Rega. Is that a preference for rolled off highs w/Klipsch vs a more neutral 2000? Music Fidelity seems to be popular, too. I'd like to use a $3k Wadia as my reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Testing $2K or $3K CD players is a bit out of my price range. However, a universal player with i.link for $700 was possible for me. The Pioneer VSX-49TXi paired with the DV-47Ai is worth a listen. Many Pioneer dealers have this pair on the floor for demo. Hi-bit sampling is available as well as excellent quality DACs. CDs play jitter free. The highest quality sound that I have heard via this combination was from the DVD-A of Hotel California in 2 channel 24/192k. The 5 channel mix at 24/96 is quite good as well. SACD on this system goes through a conversion from DSD to PCM 32/88.2. It sounds good, but it would be interesting to compare it to a Sony high end SACD with i.link that does not convert the DSD bitstream. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted August 11, 2003 Author Share Posted August 11, 2003 The mods are interesting. Anyone have any experience with Dan Wright mods? http://www.modwright.com/products/ Is this the cost effective route to great digital sound? Maybe even used versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 KJ, The Jolida JD-100 tubed cd player, should be on your list. It sounds great has upsampling option and tubed output stage. It is a bargain at $900 and sounds better than most sub $2k players. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctiger2 Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Don't forget to throw the Ah! Njoe Tjoeb in the mix. It also has a tube output stage and is favored comparably to $3K CDP's. It also has an upsampling board available for it. Brings the sampling rate to 192K... Worth checking out. http://www.audioreview.com/CD,Players/AH!,Njoe,Tjoeb,4000/PRD_125042_1586crx.aspx http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0501/tjoeb4000.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike82 Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I didn't jump into CD until around 1989 when I bought a Creek CD60. Before that, I'd auditioned several and found them lacking in any sense of musicality. To be sure, the quality of CD players has improved substantially over the past 3-5 years and the "diminishing returns" aspect of digital is more severe than in any other component. I have a moderately-priced digital front end (Audio Note CD2 t-port and DAC2.1 Signature- ~$5800 ret). Compared against, say a $2500 Audio Note 3.1x player, it is better. Twice as better? No way. 10%-20% better is about right. On the other hand, (unmodified) players much more than 5 years old don't sound very musical. A lot of Forum members use the Rega Planet, which IMO I think was never a good player, but since Sam Tellig heavily promoted it, people came with expectations and, not knowing any better, bought Sam's pitch. Today, there are alot of good players out there for <$1500. Before spending more $$$$ though, the user should spend a few $$$ on a good line conditioner, better cabling, etc. Digital and solid state gear tends to be very susceptible to power disturbances and a good conditioner makes a substantial difference for not a lot of money. Besides, the conditioners will stay in your system for a long time, so it's money well spent. Also, the cheapest, most effective tweak for a CD player/t-port is to use the Daruma III roller devices ($99. retail for set of three). You'll hear overall better definition and clarity as well as better bass extension and high frequency extension. A no-brainer, but don't ask me why they work. I took a set over the Edster's home. He was skeptical at first, but after installing the Darumas, the benefits were evident to him. When I had my shop, I had customers coming in complaining about how bad their sound was. They would buy new conponent after new component, but were never pleased. In most cases, the problems wasn't the components themselves, but poor synergy. poor quality interconnects, speaker cables, power cables, or the power itself. Sadly, most of the dealers here would rather sell a new component than ask questions about what the problem seems to be. I found those folks living in Atlanta had horrendous power line garbage and in most cases, once they got the right conditioner and cabling, they were happy with their sound. To upgrade?? If you have decent player, make sure your ancillary gear is up to snuff before laying out $$$ for a new player. It will save you a lot of $$$ Good luck! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I will probably be branded as a heretic but I do not believe in taking a mass-market CD player, swapping out some PS parts, and calling it "better". The engineering is what makes a difference, not so much the parts. Not to say that using better parts improves the product, just that better parts won't make a mediocre design better. Ditto the "add a tube output stage" concept. Tubes do not automatically make something better. And if that isn't enough, the last nail in the coffin will probably be my opinion that oversampling, upsampling, etc. is a gimmick that won't improve anything. I actually lean towards Audio Note's 1x sampling as a good idea. What I do think matters is this: A good transport, Pioneer Stable Platter is my fav so far. A VG DAC with high quality filters and analog stages. Strong power supplies with ample stability for inherently noisy digital circuits. Oh, and I'm not (no longer) a fan of seperates. Finding the right digital cable can drive you nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 KJ, another one to consider is the Sony CD1. Their flagship (at the time) SACD player. Very impressive Redbook performance. New $3000, you could find them for half or less now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted August 11, 2003 Author Share Posted August 11, 2003 Lot's of good info to look into....thx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBeam Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Randy ... are you referring to the SCD-1? If so, where have you seen one for half of 3000? to address the original post, I have an scd-777es (the very slightly detuned brother of the scd-1) going through very nice but not insane cables and solid state pieces into a set of slightly modded fortes with an interesting arrangement of subs. Playing redbook through this setup with analog pass through is as smooth as warm butter. Playing SACD (two channel) makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. I've only had the 777 for a few weeks so my analogies fall short but the differences between redbook and sacd (at least on my machine) are more subtle than the difference between standard tv and hdtv on quick examination. However when you sit down and truly audition ... the sound is absolutely stunning with the right disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Frankly, I find it ludicrous to suggest that upsampling redbook audio would improve fidelity. No matter how many snapshots you take of a waveform, if it was reconstructed from a "lower resolution" waveform, it will still retain its original characteristics. Using a top-drawer external DAC, OTOH, would make a solid difference on many players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 OK so my memory of this is fuzzy. How about $2200? SCD1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Griff: What is oversampling all about? I've never understood the rationale behind it. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Ahhhhh Oversampling is an interesting quandry. As opposed to upsampling, oversampling literally resamples on-the-fly at between 2 and 8 times the original samplerate. While this does not produce more accurate frequency response, it does provide more accurate dynamics - particularly on discs that are peaking right at 0dB. Most of the time, a good oversampling CD player or DAC will also have sufficient headroom in the post-reconstruction stage to handle what would clip a garden-variety non-oversampling CD player - instead of a functional maximum of 0dB at the output stage, something more similar to a mixing desk - 6-10dB of extra headroom to handle the spikes. Really great concept - one that the white paper I mentioned in the other thread emphasized the need for in digital mixer and DAW meters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Do you mean an 8X oversample is at 16/352.8? I still don't understand why this would improve it anymore than doing so by other means. I assumed (which is what you do when you don't know) it might have to do with better error correction. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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