Erik Mandaville Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 ...that's a rearrangment of Moondogs. And that's my plan! With the Moondogs now lifeless on the floor of my workroom (I've hardly looked at them since the Horus went into the system), they are going to supply the majority of the parts for the new amplifiers I am working on. I will use the power transformers, filter chokes, dual filter capacitors, and as many of the other parts that I can to build a new parallel-feed design. The chassis plate will be 1/8" polished aluminum just like the Horus I recently finished. (No, I don't look forward to punching and polishing the thing -- actually two of them in this case). The backplate will also be natural aluminum, and will only hold the IEC connector and fuse. Inputs (I will use RCAs instead of BNCs for the sake of others) and speaker posts will be on the top plate near the intput tube. I have a Hammond box already punched for a stereo amplifier, and will use the Old Moondog OPTs to build a decent stereo SET. Kevin: If you are still looking for those Moondog logos, you can have mine. Just let me know and I will carefully remove them and send them to you. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted August 11, 2003 Author Share Posted August 11, 2003 Just to clarify, the use of my Moondogs for this project is the result of them being my only source for power supply parts. I don't have money right now to order new transformers, filter chokes, capacitors, etc -- I just used up everything on the Horus project. Also, Leok has already completed something along the same lines, and now also has an amplifier rather different from the original Moondog. He is using top-shelf parts in his amplifiers, but, from what I understand, has incorporated the existing driver stage -- only using both sections of a single 6SN7 instead of the original two. I'm going to be working on something different in this first stage. I also know of another fellow, an extremely knowledgeable guy, who incorporated the W.E. (aka Ultrapath) connection on either his Bottlehead Paramours or Paraglows (can't remember which). His own home-built amplifiers had been ruined by a broken water pipe in the basement, and had bought the Bottlehead amps as a replacement. He also uses Lowther speakers, which is how we got in touch. But he explained a modification of the output stage, with which at the time I wasn't familiar. It was the connection of the bottom of the OPT primary to the cathode by way of a large capacitor. I just shrugged and never thought about it again. This was a few years ago. Then I stumbled upon the same connection in VTV magazine. This was Jack Eliano's DRD amplifier. I was very serious about building this amp, and had begun to source parts for it. The transformers were just too much for me, and Eliano used pure silver wire in the OPT secondary winding, which of course only added to the cost. So, I studied the Moondog schematic and thought the approach should in theory work fine with the Moondogs. Which it of course had. This is the same thing that Leo also subsequently had done to his amplifiers, but took things a step further, applying it to his parallel-feed outputs. So, the point is that I'm not doing anything really new or innovative -- I want to make that distinction. I'm trying to figure out a way to do it at a pricepoint that can bring this to a greater population. Sharing it with you all is also something I think would be enjoyable and fun for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Erik, A quick question... Why not sell the Moondogs to raise the needed cash for parts and have a few bucks left over? It doesn't make (dollars and) sense to me to gut the Moondogs for amps that will be worth less than the 'dogs! (Assuming you meet your target of ~$1000 monoblocks. Just my 2¢! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Ow, r*ping Moondogs for parts? What a world, what a world.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I agree, those Moondogs could make a tubeless Klipschan like me very happy, and if I had the extra spending money, I'd take 'em off your hands. If I can't do it, maybe someone else here can...Please reconsider tearing your Moondogs apart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I will third that suggestion. Why gut perfectly working amps when the funds could easily purchase the parts required to build the new amps. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I think everyone is missing the point. He used parts off the Moondogs to build the Horus, That means he has to spend the money he didn't want to in the first place (thats the reason for taking the parts off the Moonies)to put the dogs back together again, so he can sell them. It's kind of a catch 22. One question though, why can't you use the Moondog chassis for your new project? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Moondogs for parts?! You blaspheme! Say it ain't so. Wouldn't their market value exceed their parts value as a source of upfront cash? Not to mention the value as a reference for the new Mandaville Icarus Monoblocks. Selling them to a member of the forum would preserve them at least for the purpose of reference. Most forum members would be agreeable to visitation rights in the adoption papers. Maybe you should reconsider my offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Whoa there Erik -- slow down man!! I wouldn't mess with them Doggies -- those are some very nice amps, and still very much in demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Tom, I don't think he used any parts off the Doggie's for the Horus project. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 My mistake, I was under the impression they were sourced for the Horus, when he said they were lifeless on work shop floor. If they are intact, selling them would be the route to go, to source your new project. They would sell quick. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted August 11, 2003 Author Share Posted August 11, 2003 I thought this might happen. My Moondogs were not used for the Horus. The Horus was built from entirely new parts -- except for the Jensen coupling capacitors, which I grabbed from the Moondogs. They were/are really brand new capacitors. My experiences with the Moondogs might have been a little different from those of Leo, Ed, Kelly, Cut Throat and others who have shown pictures of the insides of their amplifiers. Shortly after I got mine, I discovered all of the epoxy that was used to hold the terminal boards in place to the bottom of the chassis was failing. The epoxy had the consistency of chewing gum, and the boards were pulling off their mounting positions. This was on both amps. It was a mess inside. There is also bit of a story behind all of this, the details of which I won't get into, here. Suffice it to say that I felt customer support might have been a little better. The amplifier is an excellent design; the parts quality very, very good; I just happened to get amps where old or incorrectly mixed epoxy was used to hold the terminal boards in place. It was a major effort to scrape off the old glue, and reapply with new, fresh stock epoxy -- all while the electronics were still attached and soldered together. It was painstaking surgery to get those things to stay in place. The bottom line, is that the wiring inside is fine, but that I had some frustrating problems with the innards is evident. Some of the boards also had to be placed at odd angles in order to make them stay put! It bothered me for a long time, since I try to keep things neat and clean. I would not be comfortable selling them to someone because of my own stubborn pride. I have made large vases or sculpture in the past, too, that I ended up recyclying because I didn't think they were at a standard I want to maintain for myself -- despite the fact that some thought I was nuts, and that they would have been willing to pay for them. I know a couple of painters who do the same thing. And that's how I feel about my Moondogs. However, there is a more important element going on: The Moondogs are nice SETs, but I sincerely believe that, with the inspiration of people like Jeff Lessard, and with LeoK's combining that special output connection with the Parallel feed design (which I immediately adopted on my Horus amps), that I can use the parts of the Moondogs to make something better than they presently are. It will not take much to do that, just two or three key components will do it. But I'm also going to work on a different input/driver stage, and maybe experiment with some direct coupling, etc. The changes that Leo did to his amps really move them beyond the realm of Moondogism, if you will. They are significantly different amplifiers, but of course retain much of the original appearance. I have no sentimental feelings about this -- they possess electronic parts I want to make something which I strongly feel will be not only better in terms of sound quality, but in an aesthetic sense, as well. My original idea was to just use a common Bud or Hammond box, which would absolutely do the trick -- they would have been totally functional. But I also have developed a certain level of pride, to where I want the finished piece to look really good, too. Moreover, I don't want so much of a visual connection with the original Moondog. Retaining the brass plate would be too strong of a point of reference (for me). Also that plate was punched for an extra octal socket, because it was used in another design. Welborne just decided to fill the hole with another 6SN7 -- which isn't needed. All one has to do is couple the two sections of one 6SN7 to complete the circuit. Leo did that, and uses the former location of the now unused hole as the entry point of his input jack -- Smart! right next to the tube it feeds for a very short signal path. What I look at this as being, is really more of an improvement of an amplifier, not the destruction of one. A really significant part of the cost of these Parallel Feed designs are the OPTS and plate chokes. And even more if one uses a grid choke (which I want to do)and orders all of those parts from MagneQuest. They are of outstanding quality and sound incredible...but they also cost more. Replacing those key parts with less expensive stuff is the main thing I'm interested in. So that's how things are going to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 "I can use the parts of the Moondogs to make something better than they presently are." Spoken like a true artist! When You put it that way, go for it!! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 O.K. Erik. I can now see that your blasphemy is at least well considered! Thanks. I'd been holding my breath for several hours. Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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