Audio Flynn Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 I thoght he was going a little over the edge. All the cool Scott hardware really cooking and then he gets this wild ingrown hair in an uncomfortable place about Mark III Mono Blocks. Well i had not been by in a while. So before i can get by to hear the Mark IIIs with the old Scott pre; he is buying more stuff. Enter the Mapletree pre. Well... I tried and tried to find a fault with the new configuration in the lab. No glaring faults. We did agree that Blue Oyster Cult LPs sound like they were recorded and mixed real high on drugs. Boy it sounded like crap. So back to some music we know. Who on LP Drowned, Real me, 5:15. Music I know by heart. Smooth, Real, and Firm. Drums, bass and guitar were all real and in the lab. Hard to imagine what Roger Daltery sounds like in person unamplified. I have no frame of reference; but stunning reproduction. LP sound quality on the MMF-7 TT was better than Billy Joel on SACD. But the SACD was pleasant. And the best of it all. About a sum total of $ 100 in cabling at the most. Speaker cable, interconects and everything. If the sonic character of the components work, cables do not mean diddly doo. Great work Craig! Rick PS: coming up review of NOS Valves rebuild of my Scott LK-48 intergrated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Interesting post. If there is one thing I would like to do regarding this forum, it's hear some of the fellow loons' systems to get a handle on where they are coming from reference-wise. Craig has acquired a really nice setup in the MMF-7, Mapletree Preamp, and rebuilt/mod Dynaco Mk III amps, these all going into a pair of LaScala with that I believe utilize the Type A crossover (I could be wrong here). Ole Craig has been as stubborn as a mule at times but the ole guy seems to come around eventually...heh. Frankly, I thought I would never see the day when he would own that ole MMF7, HO MC cartridge, and something like the Mapletree pre. Even those big Dynaco seemed far fetched! Nice work and journey, Craig! I think this setup would meet approval with many and a fine goal to achieve. I do like reading another take on someone's system. I would take issue with the last line, however. You might want to add that EXPENSIVE CABLES are not necessary to achieve quality sound. I have made and heard cables that cost a total of $5 in parts sound VERY nice, bettering cables coming in over $1000. A lot has to do with the wire, construction, materials used, and its interaction with the gear, this last aspect a critical one at times. But cables DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. They are just another piece of the audio chain that can bring your whole system up a notch or bring factors that annoy, and PRICE sometimes has nothing to do with the outcome. But in wringing every last bit out of your system, sometimes cables can suddenly have the impact of changing a major component. I have witnessed this in my own system more than a few times. I have also witnessed a major improvement DITCHING some high quality, major ducat cables (Transparent ML/W Plus) and running 18g solid core configuration from RS (cost? Less than $3). But changing from this mixture to simple handmade Belden 89259 runs via the Jon Risch twisted/connect solution was a near component-like upgrade bringing more transparency, resolution, and better extension and definition. These cables are not very expensive to make either and the parts can be obtained online with directions w/ pics as well. Ditto for the IC, both from homemade designs. While you dont need to drop major ducats into cable, I have found that it DOES indeed make a difference. On the other hand, your system can sound DAMN nice with quite a variety of selections, from solid core to various stranded solutions. Still, improvements can be made with attention to cables. Thankfully, you dont always have to walk down to the HIFI HUT to drop massive ducats to achieve this. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 You wouldn't happen to know the url to your hand made wire instructions would you? Ive made some from some RS pieces and wire but would like to upgrade.Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 This is not the easiest wire to assemble and the price for the Belden 89259 is not as cheap as going to RS; still, it's relatively cheap - Two runs at 8ft arent that bad at all. You can actually order the kit fom DIYCable which looks VERY nice and most professional with detailed instructions. Several members here have made this very kit (one in a father son project that he reported on). It looks as good as anything you could buy if that matters at all. You can actually source the parts at DIYCable.com or get the kit. OR you could round it up on your own for a bit cheaper if a bit more headache. I have had MANY cables in my system from most of the brands, at least to audition, and I rank these as some of the best, especially for Klipsch Heritage, at least the Cornwalls (Alnico/Type B xover). The Jon Risch directions are here - I would twist them. Jon Risch Twisted Cross Connect kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted August 24, 2003 Author Share Posted August 24, 2003 Mobile, True Although Craig's cables are inexpensive he does test them and is highly critical of the build quality. I had him add smaller ends(for clearance when hooking up to vintage equipment) to a pair of mine and he tossed out several Wireworld RCAs that soldered poorly to the wire before he obtained the desired performance. Those WBT locking RCAs just do not work for me on the female spacing on the Scott or other vintage equipment. We live so far away. It is tough to get other people to hear others systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Kelly, I will have to hold back the name but my interconnects are made of material suggested by a very good friend of yours ! For some reason I was sworn to secrecy ! Although I wire them in a different fashion then was suggested I think they are awesome and cost about $10 a set. Very neutral cable ! Which is exactly what I think a cable should be at least for my system. My speaker wire is just basic 12 gage mega cable which was donated by a customer ! I truly believe your absolutely correct that cables and wire can make a profound difference but to ME its a waste of time and effort ! Cables have a simple job to do (IN MY SYSTEM). There job is to pass the signal as untouched and transparent as possible. With my tuning abilities inside the amp , preamp I see no need to tune my system with cable. Others that are not inclined to fiddle with there gear should experiment with different cables. The only real way a cable changes the sonic signature of your system is thru added or reduced competence, resistance and inductance. Cable can easily tip the highs up or down, firm up the bass or loosen the bass. The same can be said for changing the value of a coupling cap or resistor here or there in you amp or preamp. This can be easily tested buy simply attaching a small value capacitor or resistor on your speaker terminal. What's next ! My own complete KT-88/6550 amps the way I think they should be done and a Tube PS for the MAD Ultra 4A Wish me luck Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 "The only real way a cable changes the sonic signature of your system is thru added or reduced competence, resistance and inductance." You know, if you're going to keep using "competence" instead of capacitance, then I'm going to make you start using "hindrance" instead of resistance, and "electromotive force" instead of inductance. What you said is true, so what does it really mean in the end? There is no such thing as a "neutral" wire. All electrical components, including wire -- have capacitance, resistance, and inductance. Resistance is pretty simple - the less the better. Dealing with capacitance and inductance is not so straight-forward, because as one goes up - the other goes down. Lower one, and the other goes up. So, what is neutral? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 How about the Bozo I bought my speakers from, he throws in monster cable he had hooked up for free, the speakers get to me and he has naked cable hooked up to the screw taps! The total contact area between cable and crossover for each channel could not be more than1/16 inch! What a Bozo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Very neutral cable in my book does not equal totally neutral capacitance capacitance capacitance capacitance capacitance capacitance capacitance capacitance capacitance capacitance capacitance capacitance capacitance capacitance capacitance capacitance capacitance Happy now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Craig: You forgot to stand in the corner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 He doesn't need to -- he lives in the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 I think Craig is on to something with his wire-is-wire/reduced competance theory of relativity. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted August 24, 2003 Author Share Posted August 24, 2003 Craig's adjustments to the terminology kind of brings the audio nut thing down to earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 I think it's great. It's a like a the secret handshake in a secret society. We talk to Craig, and he talks to us -- but we are the only people that know that the hell he is talking about. That beautiful quad of MK III's is still sitting out on AudiogoN. Isn't anyone from here going to buy them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Hey Craig, you wouldn't post the material to make your interconnect would you? Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Hey Craig, dont go to too much trouble if you do, knowhatimsayin? I sure wasted about 20 minutes. btw, my "good ole pal" loves making things seem secretive and undercover. The fink loves intrigue. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Thanks for your tip about DIYCable.com, not bad. Was hoping to get another design, maybe easier maybe better from Craig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Well, my post was concerning speaker wire and Craig's mainly IC (I know the IC he built, at least as it was told him). Did you look at the link to JON RISCH's discussion on the building of the speaker cable? There is a hot link to it above. It is worth reading just as interest. Craig and I come from slightly different backgrounds with cable experience but I am sure he will be more than willing to help as well (I know he will get a kick out of the better comment). kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Randy, I am sworn to secrecy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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