yada Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 To start off, I am a new proud member of Klipsch ! I think my RF-35 systems are great for movie (HT) and pop/rock music. But, they are just not "that" great with Classical music. The bass and midrange are awsome. With classicals, the sound just doesn't sound as clean or detail as some others. I personally think the horns just sound a little too bright for classicals. Do you guys have similar feeling as mine ? My room is about 18x10, powered by Sony STR-DA7ES. I heard some people say that Sony receiver is not a good match with Klipsch (makes the sound too bright), but I don't notice it in any other music except classicals. The fronts are about 2 feet away from the back and side walls, facing about 20 degrees inward. Wood floor with are rug. Moving the speakers forward (away from back wall) does help a little, but still under expectation of what Klipsch can do. Anyway, don't get me wrong, I am totally happy with RF35 for under $2000 (5.1), but just a little disappointed when I try to listen to some classicals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Really? I feel *exactly* the opposite. Nothing resembles best the brilliance and furiousness of an entire orchestra than horns. Try to listen to horn instruments on a cone driven system... muuudyyyy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I always thought the Sony ES products sounded reasonably decent. What are you using for a source? The problem probably has more to do with your DVD player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPyro Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Yada- First what are you using as your CDP/vinyl/SACD source? How far apart are your speakers? Do you have a TV in between the speakers? What vintage of recording (year)? Some of the older recordings (pre-1950s) don't have nearly the audio quality of the more recent stuff. I have quite a few recordings from the late 60s and early 70s that are very good recordings, yes there is a bit of floor noise, but that is to be expected. Classical music is very hard to "get right", both from a mixing perspective and listening perspective. Depending on the mixing, you can hear some tremendous compression problems when the horns (the orchestra ones) are blaring or when the entire orchestra charges towards a crescendo. The bitrate required to covey that much detail is simply not available with CDs, so one just lived with it or moved to vinyl. Now we have the option of SACD (i'm not talking DVD-A, IIRC DVD-A basically requires a monitor to start playing - someone correct me if I'm wrong) which has the benefits of CDs (portability, size, wear, etc) with sonics that are "better" then vinyl, or at least approaching it. I don't have a SACD player yet, so I haven't really gotten a good audition (time) with SACDs on Klipsch speakers but my overall impression of SACDs when I have listened to them is that they are a bit smoother, aka less digital, then CDs. There are quite a few on this forum that have SACD player and are classical music fans. Listening wise, give it some time, since the speakers are new it will take time for you to get accustomed to the Klipsch sound. Secondly, room setup, speaker setup, and acoustics can substantiality effect the sound that you hear. I have I found that having a TV in the middle of my speakers really screwed with my soundstage and the sense of 3 dimensionality. Balancing the SPL output between the fronts can really help too, so get a Radio Shack SPL meter. Once you have done the first two, then you can look at changing some of the hardware. Probably the two most recommended hardware upgrades are getting an outboard amp and using a good CD player. Outboard amps can help, but Klipsch speakers are SOOO easy to drive most amps will do fine (unless they are complete junk), it just won't give you the huge improvement that many report with more difficult speakers. As for the CDP, DSPs & DACs can make a huge difference, IMHO, much more then an outboard amp on Klispch speakers. -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Klipsch speakers use very little power, often only a fraction of a Watt. In most instruments, the higher frequencies (I'm talking harmonics mostly, but also fundamentals) contain lower power .. now we're talking a fraction of a fraction of a Watt . In general, distortion in ss amps increases as power goes down. By the time they're down to that fraction of a fraction of a Watt, most ss amps are trashing the signal. In general, distortion in tube amps decreases as power goes down. is is particularly true of triode, no-feedback designs. Feedback designs tend to have a noise floor that may be a factor, but that noise floor is nothing like the ss distortion refered to above. I suggest you try 1) a tube amp, or 2)a ss amp that is a class A, single ended design. See if that fixes the problem. There are probably a few decent ss amps out there .. small amps by Creek or maybe a very low power Parasound, but they are up against the physics of the ss devices they use. In any event, you probably don't want more than a 20 Watt amp. My amps are 3.5 Watts, and 8 watts. You probably want a little more power because your speakers are not quite as efficient. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Leo, when my attenuator is at 11 -- I promise I'm beyond milliwatts Although Leo's advice is dead on, the problem you have is that you are somewhat commited to multi-channel -- so even a moderately priced tube setup is not all that practical for you right now. The bottom line is that horns are brutally honest in revealing the distortion in our amps and sources, and moving to them typically necessitates upgrades to downstream components. Gear with inherent design compromises will be shown for what it is: Gear with inherent design compromises! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yada Posted September 13, 2003 Author Share Posted September 13, 2003 Yes, I have a TV in the middle for the HT. Well, I bought the Klipsch for the main reason for HT (5.1). Then, I just pop some classicals music in and they are just not as "excellent" as I thought they would be. The mains are about 8 feet apart. I ain't any classicals audiophiles, in fact I listen to HT or pop most of the time. But, just a small flaw I personally feel from these great speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 The problem is not the speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Dean, That's a hard sell, but yes, the problem is not the speakers. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I'll chime in since I own a sony DA5ES. I personally can't listen to ANY music through the sony. Maybe I'm spoiled (I certainly am now with the scott 299b) but when I bought the sony I was replacing my 1976 kenwood receiver (320 watts) and my wife and I immediately had a custom cabinet built so we wouldn't have to listen to 2-channel using the sony. It was that bad in comparison. I can't imagine the 7ES is much different than the 5ES. We listen to some classical but not that much. If you're happy with everything but classical you're lucky. If you ever decide to change your 2-channel amplification, you will find out how good those horns can really sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 I think my RF-5's sound fine for classical. for power I have a Mcintosh MC-2105 amp and a B&K PT-3 preapm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 From everything I have gathered, a GOOD amp will make the Reference series go from 'bleh' to 'WOW!!! ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 it is not the rf's it is the sony. i remember the sony's i auditioned, they sounded poor in music, like a boom box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beesley Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 I had the same problem with lower end pioneers, more noticable in the vsx-608s through vsx-811s models. Great for home theater with no major problems, however 2 channel audio was terrible....I mean the speakers sounded like a cheap boom box. It was even worse with classical music,I had to jack the volume control way up to get almost decent sound. I sold the Klipsch (awaiting Legend upgrade)to a friend and music sounds much better with his kenwood. I'm guessing your speakers are not being played to their full potential becasue they are being restricted by the sony. What are the chances of so many members of this forum consistantly recommending denon, outlaw, H/K, Pioneer Elite, and even Yamaha. There must be a good reason why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 "What are the chances of so many members of this forum consistantly recommending denon, outlaw, H/K, Pioneer Elite, and even Yamaha. There must be a good reason why." Because if one wants to do affordable multichannel -- those are the choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yada Posted September 14, 2003 Author Share Posted September 14, 2003 Hmmm.... interesting. Maybe, I will go borrow a different receiver and try it out with the Klipsch. Maybe, it's the receiver..... That darn Sony ES ! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beesley Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 "Because if one wants to do affordable multichannel -- those are the choices." Exactly. My old Pioneer VSX-D811s sounded so thin.......it was anorexic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danechristian Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 ---------------- On 9/14/2003 4:09:33 AM marksdad wrote: it is not the rf's it is the sony. i remember the sony's i auditioned, they sounded poor in music, like a boom box ---------------- EXACTLY!! try to go with other recievers and amps. ex. hk avr 7200. or try marantz pm7200 (you need three of these, u can even have a class A amplification out of it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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