Parrot Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 To read a technical but not too difficult to follow article about them, go here: http://www.iq.sony.com/srvs/sosdocs/default.asp Then type in STR-DA9000ES Then download the "ES Receivers Technical Background," for which you'll need Adobe Acrobat or something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 here is the link to the discussion about the sony all-in-one units over at audiocircle.... http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=2297 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 The thing that is intriguing is the just-released or very-soon-to-be-released all-in-one units, that have multi-channel digital amplification, SACD/CD/DVD player, and a tuner. These are the AVD-S500ES and AVD-C700ES, list of $800 and $1000. No interconnects for audio anymore, just speaker wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 and these multichannel keep the entire signal path in the digital domain all the way through the amplifiers.... (except for the tuner section) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 Minn male, Interesting that Ric Schultz, who is a rabid tweaker, is intrigued by these. Nothing on his website yet though. I like the one comment someone made at AA, that this kind of technology is as if he woke up one day and found his entire collection of specialized knives could be replaced with a Swiss Army knife. (Very rough paraphrase.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Paul, The control over pulse amplitude looks promising. With clean enough switching transistors, this amp could have the ability to keep distortion and noise down at low levels and still be able to deliver 200 Watts. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I've been watching this technology very closely over the last year. I believe I did post about the PS Audio HCA-2 digital switching amp a while back. Some time ago I emailed several AudiogoN members who were selling theirs, and asked them what they thought, and why they were selling. All three came back with basically the same thing: a great sounding amp that competes with other great sounding amps between $2K and $3K. None of them indicated it was the end all, and two of them were going back to tubes. As always, it's the total system and the ears that make the final decision -- not the circuit topology. http://www.psaudio.com/products/hca_overview.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 One way the Sony units has it over the other units (note: I have not heard ANY of them) is in price. One of last year's Sony models of the all-in-ones is only a few hundred bucks (the AVD-S50ES). That's for Multi-Channel amplification, an SACD/CD/DVD player, and tuner. And Sony ES has a 5-year warranty. Logically it only makes sense that they aren't going to sound as good as the stuff Sony is selling for ten times as much. But I bet it is in the same ballpark and would bear looking into for someone on a tight budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Give me convenience or give me Death! - Jello Biafra This might be too interesting a reference on a Sunday...Heh. I see the advantage in that all in one application as keeping everything in the digital domain as stated, at least in reference to the goals of this topology. On the other hand, I have never found all-in-one gear of any type to be particularly pleasing as a problem with one area bring the whole machine to a halt instead of that piece of gear. Also, you usually end up with one power power supply for the entire system, another large negative in my view. Add to this, the fact the upgrade path for one sector now involves the whole unit, and you have some problems, the same problems and concerns that have always plagued all-in-one answers. I actually cant think of an all-in-one component that I have found to be at the top of its field, certainly not in audio. Then again, the all in the digital domain point does deserve mention. From all the talk with other tube compatriots, the digital solution is still not what it's cracked up to be sonically, this compared to better tube designs. On the other hand, there is promise here on the horizon. What amazes me so much about Leo's low watt Tripath digital implementation is the size and quality when used within limits. The fact that so much can be had for so little is amazing. I have been living with this Tripath digital amp for better part of 6 months and listening full time since July. This low watt implementation DOES have quality sound. Does it better tube amps, especially quality SET? I dont think so, but at the price and implementation, there isnt a lot of competition. Ironically enough, I actually think my Moondogs will go louder without sound degradation that the little Tripath. I think SET tube amps have more benign clipping characteristics - actually most tube amps have better clipping charachteristics over other options. Still, the quality of Leo's digital amp easily passes most of the solid state amps I have had here, exept in sheer power. While he uses his for higher power needs I find myself preferring the sound of this unit within each range. It has a very useful indicator to see when you are pushing the amp too far into distortion. I dont generally like the amp as much with Rock at higher volumes. It's still not that tube sound but it sure beats most solid state I have had on hand, even some heavy hitters. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 Mobile, Exactly how many Sony ES all-in-one units have you heard in your home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 "...actually most tube amps have better clipping characteristics over other options." The one topology that doesn't have graceful clipping characteristics is Ultra-linear with negative feedback. "The other disadvantage of a negative feedback amplifier is that the transition from clean to distorted is much more abrupt, because the negative feedback tends to keep the amp distortion to a minimum until the output stage clips, at which point there is no "excess gain" available to keep the feedback loop operating properly. At this point, the feedback loop is broken, and the amp transitions to the full non-feedback forward gain, which means that the clipping occurs very abruptly. The non-negative feedback amp transitions much more smoothly into distortion..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 A unit like this Sony is very attractive to me, I'm in a hook it up and forget about it frame of mind now. Get something simple that sounds good and simply use it, stop thinking about it all the time. Like I said, attractive. Maybe a sound system should be like a toaster, you use it when you need it and don't give it much thought otherwise. Of course that negates the hobbyist aspect of it. I wonder if there are toaster hobbyists; you know, guys who think a GE makes better toast than a Sunbeam. Is there a market for tweaky toasters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I don't know about "tweaky" toasters, but vintage toasters certainly have a following. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 LOL I'm not sure, but I think vintage toasters are "tweaky" toasters. Man, you can spend days trying to align those coils, and even then, you can't be quite sure how things are going pop out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Someday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Parrot, how many digital amps have you had in your home? Any at all? You have any good friends that have had these in home that you have discussed? I have had a digital Tripath for a good while and have commented on it favorably. My comments relating to the Sony were in relation to the all in one technical aspect, more than the sonics. I have never been too in favor of all in one solutions for the very reasons I mentioned. Sonically? Who knows. I found all in one solutions in he past to be subpar on the whole. I have quite a few friends in the audio business that are into tubes and have sampled or sold digital amplifiers. I also did one of the first sites dealing digital amplification solutions from Europe about two years ago. So far, digital seems like a neat topology with some promising aspects. From what I have heard and discussed and worked with, I dont think it will move high quality tube amplification off the racks in the near future, sonically speaking. On the other hand, if I was a solid state amp manufacturer, I would be a bit worried. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I'm more interested in knowing how many toasters Kelly has had in is home. I mean, clearly this is going to be newest up and coming thing, and I think Kelly needs to get up to speed here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I'm sure in the end Kelly will have the most open and bloomy Toaster on earth I'm also sure he will have the most in tune ear to hear if the bread is being toasted with the right decay and rise time Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Yes, he'll be using the SOC, or Single Open Coil, in an open chassis. It would be cool to be able to light a cigarette without having to put your face in the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Somehow I really don't think Kelly smokes Although at times I think he is smoking something but surely not cigarettes ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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