Rope Caulk for Fortes'?

[bobd]

I have not read anything here about rope caulk on Fortes. Is this a viable mod for them? I'm trying to reduce some of the harshness caused by my Yamaha/Klipsch combo.

Thanks.

[Istari]

Not needed on the Forte' I or Forte' II, the mid horn is made of a composite material.

The metal K-400-500-600-700 series horns (metal die cast) benefit from this treatment.

[3dzapper]

Can't hurt. It's both cheap and reversable. I know it helped the sound of my pair of KG-4.5s with the composite traxix horn. I did both the horn and woofer basket, much cleaner sounding for about $10.

Rick

[mike stehr]

I had Chorus II's and Yamaha, It was harsh.

I don't really think damping the Forte horns is really going to matter, maybe to a degree.

Try it.

[Daddy Dee]

Bob,

if you decide to caulk the horns, hope you will post your results.

Dee

[bobd]

So I tried the rope caulk on the Fortes'. It didn't make much difference. Maybe took a little off the harshness. I'm beginning to think these speakers are just too big for the room they are in. It's a 13 by 26 room. The room is cut in half by rather tall love seat. So the speakers are in a 13 by 13 area. It's like too much sound. Even when your at the other end of the room it's as if the sound is some what scattered and there is no imaging since the love seat cuts that off and the couch is located on a side wall. Totally sucky room set up fo listening. I'm thinking a smaller pair of speakers like a Paradigm(sp?) Monitor 3 on short stands or B&W 602's.

[ironwoods]

So your saying you have a used pair of Forte's going up on the auction block?

[Frzninvt]

Bobd, the Forte's are not the cause of your trouble it is the amplification that you are using. You are looking in the wrong direction the Forte' is a fantastic sounding speaker when paired with the right amplifier. The Yamaha's have a reputation for being harsh and shrill when paired with Klipsch speakers. See if you can borrow another amp or receiver and it will certainly confirm this. But hell if you want to sell them this is the place to offer them.

[Colin]

A few years ago, I wrote about my experience applying soft, gray window rope caulk (found at Home Depot for a few bucks) to my walnut-oiled Cornwall 1s, with their B2 crossovers. I loved the subtle difference the caulk made on my big ole horns. It helped to tame the savage harshness caused by the B2 crossover ringing (a sharp bounce at 5-9kHz). A few others here tried it on their big ole horns also. Some with the stiff black Dynmat, sold to dampen automobiles, applied by heating it first and some with the easy-to-apply and remove rope putty. Almost all reported liking the slight improvement. Even with newer, composite horns.

I have not yet tried it on my classic Klipsch corner Khorns. Their frequency response looks to be fairly flat.

BobG, a moderator of this forum, has recommended caulking and weighing down big ole horns to improve their sound. I followed his advice both times and liked the result:

Stereos as strenuous sport: Sand bagging the sound.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1299/sandbagging.htm

Try it you might like it.

(but I also suspect your receiver)

[Colin]

OK, here is what I said back then:

Reviewed by:  A Colin Flood, Audio Enthusiast, from Palm Beach Gardens

Product Model Year:

1997

Summary:

Cheap and temporary Cornwall tweaks

Following the advice of J.W. Gorman off the Klipsch BBS, I tweaked the horns in my old Cornwalls (serial numbers 32x57 and 32x58). The tweaks are temporary, simple, easy, low-cost and extremely effective. It does indeed stop the harsh ringing and jitter of the mid-range and high-end horns.

Last night I reversed the roles we normally hold, my speakers and I. Instead of my worshipful genuflection before their presence, I gingerly placed the 100 pound babies face down on the floor, and removed their backs.

Inside I found the cabinet walls trimmed with thin, light gray, padding wall to wall. The padding was edged and tied down with a framework of delicate string. It looked like a miniature 1890s padded asylum cell for some insane small creature.

The K-33-E woofer was surprisingly light, more like a Radio Shack woofer: No large frame or huge magnet. In fact, the magnet was as thin as the padding.

The K-51-V metal mid-range horn was more impressive. It rose almost a foot high and was topped by a rounded magnet. The K-77-M tweeter by comparison was much smaller than it looks from the outside: No bigger than the yellowing coils on the B-2 crossover board.

Like a pottery artist dabbing bits of clay on a masterpiece I packed a layer of caulking cord over the pyramid shaped sides of the throat portion of both horns. Once impressive black horns, they now looked like old gray mummies. Padded straight jacket inmates, tall and tiny, in a miniature padded asylum cell.

The caulking cord is gray weather stripping window putty sold at Home Depot for less than $5.00 in 30 and 90 linear feet rolls. I used 120 feet. It comes in 1 1/2" wide flat strips easily torn and pasted by hand. Each speaker took about one network TV hour-long show.

Next, I placed washers underneath the crossover boards. The washers were the thickest I could find in the plumbing section and cost $.47 a piece. Finally I gave the speakers their annual rub down with lemon oil like the fine through bred race horses that they are.

The effect of the tweaks was immediate and wonderful. The clamor and ringing was gone from the high end.

I immediately played the last CD I was listening to in order to hear the contrasts and the tone. Michael Frank's Blue Pacific CD sounded soft, gentle and warm. My wife even commented on how much she liked it; but even more important, she did not ask me to turn it down from 8:00 on my pre-amp dial, which she normally does.

Before the tweaks, I played Sprinstein's Born to Run CD with a feeling of harshness, even though I wanted to blast out the music, I had to keep turning down the volume. The high end was hard and harsh - I blamed the age of the recording.

But when I played Springstein after the tweaks, it was with out pain at 8:00 on my pre-amp dial. Then I played a Nimbus Natural sound CD with a Chopin horn section to see if the trumpet sound was still good. It was.

The jury is back: The verdict is in. The only thing remaining is the penalty stage. These tweaks are great! Makes me wonder if I needed to move to the Rotel CD or even the Dynaco tubed pre-amp years ago.

The best part is that I can reverse all or any part of these tweaks easily - simply remove the layer of gray putty and the black washers. And in fact, I may remove the layer on the tweeters to allow some ringing to augment the sizzle of cymbals, if several hours of listening to a variety of music warrant such a move.

The tweaks are simple, easy, low-cost and extremely effective. It does indeed stop the harsh ringing and jitter of the mid-range and high-end horns. The high-end speaker still tweets, but the mid-range horn no longer squawks.

Strongly recommended: Thank you J.W. Gorman!

[bobd]

SO I went and listened to a pair of Paradigm reference speakers. They were very nice and very clear. No bass to speak of when compared to my Fortes. they were driven by a Yamaha rx777 which is what I have. Then I went to Cambridge Soundworks. Listened to a pair of Tower I's. They are very nice. Very warm and clear. And currently on sale for $680. If anyone is in the Boston area and wants a pair of Fortes in Oak with a bit of water damage on the tops let me know. I'd let them go for $400. I think that's a fair price considering they are almost mint. There are some waters marks on the tops.

[JCturboT]

Bob,

Even with the water stains I'd say you have no problem selling them,especially on the East Coast, as nice,clean Klipsch speakers are getting harder to find.

Jeff

[Colin]

likes the Yamaha more than the horns = ouch! lost another customer...

[mike stehr]

Oh well....

Gee Colin, you pretty much got me convinced to rope caulk my horns!

[bobd]

It's not so much that I like the Yamaha more than the horns it's more a matter of the Fortes really don't fit the room soundwise and the Yamaha is newly purchased. Also I can get 400 for the Fortes where as I would probably get less for the Yamaha. I think my friend may want the Fortes for a future surround sound system. He said he'd give me 400 for them.

[Benesesso]

Room size 13' X 26'? Not good at all-a multiple. Do you hear the strong bass peak from the reinforcement? Should be right around 80 Hz. Different places will have much stronger peaks than others.

[dougdrake]

I had Forte's in a 10x11 room, and the sound was nice, coupled with a Denon receiver. I also heard Forte's in a much larger room, about the same as yours, and they also sounded nice. Hate to lose a Klipsch owner, but I agree you might want to try swapping the equipment. But, OTOH, you may just prefer the sound of other speakers. Not everyone loves the Klipsch sound (though for the life of me I'll never know why ).

[Strabo]

I dampened my Forte 2's with Dynamat, mainly because I couldn't figure out how to wrap them with rope since they have all those ribs on them.

At first only did the mids to see if I could tell a difference before doing anything else. It takes a long time to cut the pieces to size and aply them. I probably have 20 hours into it so far. Figure 4-6 hours to do the mids alone.

The changes were subtle to me at first. But what I found after a week of listening was that my ear kept gettting drawn to the high frequencies. IMHO that meant that the mid was now more subdued and the tweeter was overpowering.

After that revelation I dynamatted the tweets and now everything matches again.

I'm convinced it is a great tweak but YMMV.

I also recommend at least dynamatting the passive radiator. Without a magnet, that woofer basket rings like a SOB. I can tap it with my finger now and it's a quick thud. I plan to finish the main woofers in the future but for now I'm out of material.

[bobd]

I actually do love the sound of Klipsch. They are so "alive" sounding. And the bass is tremendous and textured. My problem with them is I get almost sensory overloaded while listening to them. The highs and mids are just too bright and too much. When I listened to the Cambridge Soundworks M80's(8" woofer,3"mid,1"dome tweeter) they were easy to listen to. Very tame highs but at the same time clear. Also, the bass was pretty good. The Tower I's were even better becuase they had the added bass and they have rear firing mids and tweeters that give the speaker a very open sound without being at all harsh. Plus they are on sale for 680 bucks. That's a lot of spreaker for that kind of money. Also, I don't feel so bad about leaving Klipsch for these speakers since they were designed by Henry Kloss who is another great American speaker designer.

[tubeaudio]

Hi bobd,

I have a pair of Forte II's. I found then very harsh even through triode tubes. I used a product called "more tight" from a Home Depot. Major difference, I would recommend it.

tubeaudio