Griffinator Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Another thread jogged my memory, and I decided I ought to go ahead and lay out my feelings about the whole BB-Klipsch connection, after coming full circle in my opinions... When I first showed up at the Klipsch forums, I was a hardcore audio nut (still am) that worked at Best Buy. When I found out that Klipsch was coming to BB, I was ecstatic! What a great name in speakers! Finally, I have something to sell alongside my JBL S-series! It seemed, however, that there were a lot of forum members that were, to say the least, less excited about the venture than I was. I couldn't understand it! Klipsch was a little known brand with a proud heritage. What better way to further that heritage than to gain the exposure that a 500+ store retail chain could deliver? The Klipsch Synergy stuff came into BB, and I sold it like a madman. Hell, I forgot I even had JBL stuff. SF towers and Quintets flew out the door of Lynchburg's BB, paired up with the KSW-12 sub (since I hated the 10) I still couldn't understand what the big problem was. Until I started seeing it firsthand. It started with the HTiB's. $300 systems were replaced by $200 systems, then $100 systems, then (astonishingly) $80 units. Absolute crapola - but we were still bound by a "no disparaging product" clause. I had to sell absolute **** that I would be embarrassed to GIVE away - but not say anything about how bad it was. I had back surgery, and was out for a while. When I came back, JBL had done it too. The Studio series was no more at BB. What replaced it was a cheaper Northridge "E" series - more expensive than regular Northridge, but still crap-a-licious, complete with fake "titanium laminated" tweeters instead of the real deals. Yamaha had streamlined their BB product offering - with a new ultra-low-end receiver - the 5630 - $200 - to compete with Sony, Kenwood, and Pioneer, all of whom had a sh1tbag unit at that price point. Cerwin Vega was gone (no great loss, I never liked their home speakers anyway) but replaced by a whole new display full of the same crap as KLH, under some weird badge I had never heard of. It all started to add up. Best Buy really was the Wal-Mart of audio stores. They keep on beating up their suppliers for cheaper and cheaper goods, and the suppliers either oblige or walk. It was never about getting better products into their stores. Just ones they could move more of. C-V ruined their good name in car audio trying to gain market share by offering a product at BB that was cheaper than anything they offered to indie dealers. All I can do now is hope that Klipsch sees the error of their ways before it's too late. Already, high-end retailers are dropping off like flies, because uneducated customers say "why should I pay extra for Klipsch here when I can get Klipsch at Best Buy for less?" It's not that Klipsch doesn't want to have retailers - it's that a lot of retailers don't want to have Klipsch. Why? Because their name is soiled by a mass-marketing mistake. Best Buy, just like Wal-Mart, is a vampire. Whether you're a customer, employee, or a supplier, they're going to suck you dry, then toss you aside and look for the next victim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. I hate to say, though, that even some "higher-end" stores are starting to follow Best Buy's example (one of which I used to work for). On the other hand, when BB started selling Klipsch, we went exclusively to the Reference Series. It's not that we couldn't compete with BB's prices, they actually sold the speakers for the same price that we did, and even copied some of our packages (with HTR-series Yamahas instead of RX-V's), but we wanted to seperate ourselves from Best Buy. Then they started carrying Mitsubishi TV's and that really sucked!!! BB's TV's weren't even the same models as ours, yet we had to price match all the time. Now, my former employer is carrying movies, going to a uniform-style dress code, and running ads just like Best Buy. I'm glad I got out when I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Just like Toddvj said - you pretty much summed it up. I am all for a company wanting to expand thier market and retail exposer. After all, they are a business, and a business does need to make money. As sad as it is to say, but Klipsch is not making money selling Heritage, so I hope they sell plenty of Synergy so they continue to make Heritage (I want to eventually get a pair of k-horns, and to be honost, I would not mind buying brand-new, to support the fact that there are people still wanting to buy them new). But, that being said, I hope Klipsch does not sacrifice the quality and prestige that it's name represents as a result. Yes, I was pretty miffed to see the local Best Buy get rid of the JBL Studio series and put that new 'E' series in. I actually liked the Studio Series. If Best Buy tries to demand a cheapend Synergy line, say with plastic cabinets instead of the MDF, and cheaper quality drivers, I hope Klipsch walks instead of cowering to them. I also found it ironic that in a thread about why they pulled out of Tweeter it was mentioned that Tweeter was not "properly displaying or showing the product", or some similiar type thing. However, at the same time, I am hearing about displays that don't always work right or not setup all that great at Best Buy. Granted, the one here in Fredericksburg has actually done a pretty good job in recent months in maintaining a decent display of the Klipsch product. They also have a pretty decent listening area, but still to close to the car audio section. Friggan annoying when trying to attempt some critical listening to have the damn kids over in the car-audio section cranking up the subwoofers to way overdriven levels. I do like to spend time in there to listen to and compare the Synergy to other brands that they have on hand (especially the Bose), mainly more for interest and to be familier with the product, so I can at least answer questions that may be posed on this forum and make appropriate recommendations (generaly, if you can swing it - go Reference, if not - at least get the biggest pair you can afford). Still, I thought the Tweeter did a far better job. Not only that, you can also bring your own material in to Tweeter to listen to (and they highly recommend you do) as well as select from several different source electronics. At Best Buy, you are limited to whatever they have programmed into that stupid key-pad listening station (and the tracks they have usually sucks), and you are stuck with that Yamaha reciever (at least that is what it is here in F'burg). I don't even know what the CD player is. If you want to try a movie, you got to use that loop they have running continously. Can't even bring in your own DVD to try out. I guess you could try talking the sales associate into letting you load your own CD or DVD into it. I have seen in on the very rare occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Sounds like we all feel the same way. I actually went to a Tweeters and Best Buy the other day. Tweeters is sporting Martin Logins while BB is pushing Klipsch speakers I've never even heard of before. Never thought I look at Tweeters as the "high-end" spot, but in comparison... All ego, but it hurts when you tell someone you're playing Klipsch and they say they just saw them at BB and almost bought a pair for $200! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I was in BB the other day to pick up "The Essential Bruce Springsteen" with a gift card I had gotten for Xmas. I just can't for the life of me understand why they sell $10,000 plasma TV's while the most expensive receiver they sell is $499. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shmoe Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Yup I agree also Griff, that's the way of the future I believe. Quantity over Quality. Sad. I don't think BB is going to keep their sales up though if they keep going that way. Their return policy sucks & CD's and movies aren't as cheap anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdfan Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 The bigger question to me is, why doesn't Klipsch try and find a way to make the reference line and heritage series more available? It seems to me that the people who post on this website are more than willing to spend extra on our audio equipment. That said, I don't think we're the ONLY ones willing to do so. Imagine an rf3 based ht system in the BB demo room and how much better it is than anything else they offer. Even at a higher price, I don't see how it couldn't sell itself in that environment. Throw an rf7 based system in there coupled with the $7000 big screen tv and see how that goes. I mean,if bose sells a hell of alot of $350 clock wave radios, I believe Klipsch can sell their reference line. Heritage, let's face it, just doesn't have the size, WAF that is needed today to sell on a mass market level. However, judging by the interest here in 10plus year old equipment, it could be sold in smaller upper end stores. I'd like to think you can be just as profitable by making a higher grade product as you can making junk to compete with klh and the like. Maybe it's time for an American company to raise the bar with quality instead of lowering the bar for price. That's the way it used to be. Think of how much of the products that we buy today are cheap in quality for the sake of price. I was always told that when you purchase something, buy the best that way you only have to buy it once. O.K., I'll shut up now, just my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsakura Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 ---------------- On 2/19/2004 8:53:19 PM sdfan wrote: The bigger question to me is, why doesn't Klipsch try and find a way to make the reference line and heritage series more available? It seems to me that the people who post on this website are more than willing to spend extra on our audio equipment. That said, I don't think we're the ONLY ones willing to do so. Imagine an rf3 based ht system in the BB demo room and how much better it is than anything else they offer. Even at a higher price, I don't see how it couldn't sell itself in that environment. Throw an rf7 based system in there coupled with the $7000 big screen tv and see how that goes. I mean,if bose sells a hell of alot of $350 clock wave radios, I believe Klipsch can sell their reference line. Heritage, let's face it, just doesn't have the size, WAF that is needed today to sell on a mass market level. However, judging by the interest here in 10plus year old equipment, it could be sold in smaller upper end stores. I'd like to think you can be just as profitable by making a higher grade product as you can making junk to compete with klh and the like. Maybe it's time for an American company to raise the bar with quality instead of lowering the bar for price. That's the way it used to be. Think of how much of the products that we buy today are cheap in quality for the sake of price. I was always told that when you purchase something, buy the best that way you only have to buy it once. O.K., I'll shut up now, just my two cents. ---------------- I agree that, even Ref 15 25 series would be nice for selling in best buy. People who go to bestbuy can pay 250 for a cell phone when you can get one for free, why not a pair of RB15 for similar price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny TN Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I dont know about you guys...but that's what The Good Guys is for.. they have reference stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraveen Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Good Guys is only on the west coast though. BestBuy is across the states Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackBurner Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I do believe our klipsch loons got their noses out of joint because there " kingdom " was being pawned off with the rest of the bargain basement garbage. Thus dragging klipschs name into the poo puddle with everything else offered there . Kinda a kick in the balls if you get my drift. It's a sad state of affairs when the retailer starts dictating to the supplier what kind and price range of product to manufacture. Welcome to the " new " world of marketing invented right here in the good old " US of A " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsakura Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 ---------------- On 2/19/2004 9:53:01 PM Johnny TN wrote: I dont know about you guys...but that's what The Good Guys is for.. they have reference stuff ---------------- That's the reason that I can't get from them. I live in east coast and 6ave or soundcity can't reach here as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Yeah it's pretty sad. I bought my synergys before best buy and my klipsch dealer and i were talking. I was like could you score me some surrounds. You know to match my synergys he was like you know klipsch wont sell them only at best buy. He said one day they just were not available anymore took them off their list just like that. I got a great deal on my speakers. And the sad part is i can buy reference speakers cheaper on the net than what best buy is charging for the synergy line. But i already have the mains and center and i would like the surrounds. Another thing is i said i may want a pair of reference rf-25 and he said well lets see if klipsch is still selling them to us when your ready. But i am holding out i may go heretige. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TauRus Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I think one of the ways out of this would be to actually create a budget brand. Take the name of the Synergy line, make it a brand. So that when you look at the speaker you see the Synergy logo, perhaps with a fine print below "made by Klipsch". Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou8thisSN Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 well, i worked over the summer at best buy, while they introduced the klipsch. The entire time I was there, I think they sold maybe 2 or 3 floorstanding speakers. Most people who came to best buy bought the crappy HTIB systems. 1 person, in 4 months, bought a samsung 42" plasma. Best Buy caters to a different crowd of people and so does wal-mart, and I dont see how you people can blame them for doing that? not everyone can afford this hobby some of us are fortunate to dedicate large financial resources to. I'm not offended or ashamed that Klipsch is selling stuff at Best Buy, and if fiends come to my house, i'll still brag about Klipsch. There's plenty of companies that sell products in all price ranges, like Sony, or Panasonic, why would it hurt your ego if the same brand of speakers you bought also produce cheaper versions at discount stores? you dont like their policies, dont shop there, but its wrong to critize what it is they are doing, because they are catering to a market that isnt you. even if they compromise their quality, so what? how does that affect YOU? they arent putting cheaper drivers in the reference or heritage series, are they? I mean, Sony is known for having some of the best CRTs and such in the business, while they sell sub standard TVs at best buy, they still manage to have an XBR and the exhaulted Qualia line, where they innovate and continue to bring out the best. Nothing wrong for Klipsch to follow the same business model. You show me an instance when their reference/heritage speakers quality deteorates because of Best Buy marketing policies, and then i'll agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou8thisSN Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 ---------------- On 2/20/2004 12:38:18 AM TauRus wrote: I think one of the ways out of this would be to actually create a budget brand. Take the name of the Synergy line, make it a brand. So that when you look at the speaker you see the Synergy logo, perhaps with a fine print below "made by Klipsch". Just a thought. ---------------- I think the only reason you're saying that is not because you're thinking what is best for Klipsch, but what is best for YOU. YOu want people to know that you spent big bucks on your system, and want no chance for them to interpret your stuff as the sub-par simply because the same company also sells at Best Buy. Its really about your respective egos, and the chance of someone underestimating the power of either your pocketbook or the quality Klipsch products can produce. What is wrong if they sell some of their stuff without the same quality of the reference line at BB, to move more product, so they can profit more, and perhaps invest that into R&D and design better speakers for the reference lines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TauRus Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 ---------------- On 2/20/2004 1:13:01 AM Ou8thisSN wrote: I think the only reason you're saying that is not because you're thinking what is best for Klipsch, but what is best for YOU. YOu want people to know that you spent big bucks on your system, and want no chance for them to interpret your stuff as the sub-par simply because the same company also sells at Best Buy. Its really about your respective egos, and the chance of someone underestimating the power of either your pocketbook or the quality Klipsch products can produce. What is wrong if they sell some of their stuff without the same quality of the reference line at BB, to move more product, so they can profit more, and perhaps invest that into R&D and design better speakers for the reference lines? ---------------- I understand your opinion. In fact, I personally have no issue with Best Buy selling Synergies, and my ego does not suffer from it. I only suggested that idea since i keep reading these complaints about the deteriorating effect of BestBuy here in this forum. So after yet another thread on this topic, i thouight of a solution to this and came up with this basic marketing trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 20, 2004 Author Share Posted February 20, 2004 ---------------- On 2/20/2004 1:13:01 AM Ou8thisSN wrote: I think the only reason you're saying that is not because you're thinking what is best for Klipsch, but what is best for YOU. YOu want people to know that you spent big bucks on your system, and want no chance for them to interpret your stuff as the sub-par simply because the same company also sells at Best Buy. Its really about your respective egos, and the chance of someone underestimating the power of either your pocketbook or the quality Klipsch products can produce. What is wrong if they sell some of their stuff without the same quality of the reference line at BB, to move more product, so they can profit more, and perhaps invest that into R&D and design better speakers for the reference lines? ---------------- I wanted to believe that when Klipsch came to BB. I told everyone that came through the door that "this is Klipsch's entry level - they sell $2000 a pair speakers that sound way better than this" The problem is that there are thousands of stupid people at BB saying that "Synergy is the Klipsch top-of-the-line" because they either don't know any better or don't care. That's what drags Klipsch's name through the mud. You seem to have also skipped over what I said about Cerwin Vega. Before their venture with Best Buy, Cerwin Vega was the most respected name in CAR AUDIO speakers. They dealt with BB for a number of years, offering a "bargain" line that was not available anywhere else. People went to BB to buy the cheaper stuff, thinking (with the help of the ignorant BB "salespeople") that it was just as good as the more expensive stuff available at premium car audio places. Premium places stopped carrying CV because they had no chance of competing with these "exclusive" lines at BB. People discovered, when they put their systems through some serious punishment, that the CV's they bought at BB sucked. They extrapolated that reputation across the entire Cerwin Vega line. Now, CV is nowhere in car audio. They tried to play the mass-market game and lost - BAD. The first half of that story (until right before the "people discovered that it sucked" part) sounds very familiar to me. I pray to all the audio gods that the second half doesn't. It's not just about personal pride. It's about the market viewpoint. Fact is, most BB customers don't know who Klipsch is. They know (if the right salesman teaches them) that even the Klipsch Synergy sounds way better than anything else BB has to offer. What I worry about is what BB is going to demand of Klipsch to keep the Synergy line in their stores, and what build quality risks Klipsch is willing to take with their reputation to continue the relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirebirdTN Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 ---------------- On 2/20/2004 1:13:01 AM Ou8thisSN wrote: I think the only reason you're saying that is not because you're thinking what is best for Klipsch, but what is best for YOU. YOu want people to know that you spent big bucks on your system, and want no chance for them to interpret your stuff as the sub-par simply because the same company also sells at Best Buy. Its really about your respective egos, and the chance of someone underestimating the power of either your pocketbook or the quality Klipsch products can produce. What is wrong if they sell some of their stuff without the same quality of the reference line at BB, to move more product, so they can profit more, and perhaps invest that into R&D and design better speakers for the reference lines? ---------------- That is the silliest thing I have ever heard. If your happy with the SOUND and PERFORMANCE of your system, then who cares? But if you buy product "band names" because of EGO or to "Show Off" how much money you invested in your system, then I think you are buying your products for the WRONG reasons. If its about EGO, and not about the acoustical reproduction, then just buy another brand that you can't get at any B&M stores. Now, if the Quality of the Reference line suffers, that is ONE thing; but why worry about the "reputation" just because they are selling a lower priced speaker package at a place that is easy to obtain them. I am not rich. HT is not my primary hobby. I am just an average consumer, that has been looking for "above the average" components. Personally, I have my eyes set on a pair of RF5s, but my biggest complain is, I have ONE dealer that doesn't even stock speakers within a 100mi radius. Now, with the top of the line, I wouldn't expect to be able to pop down to the local sears and pick them up, but for a lower end line, I don't see any harm... Okay, I kind of got off on a different rant...My main point was, so long as the QUALITY doesn't suffer, who cares about the REPUTATION. Let the masses keep buying the Synergies, and when you want to show off what a REAL Klipsch sounds like (Reference line), let the product speak for itself. -EDIT- I think I mis-read your post...I think we actually agree on this point...OPPPS... -Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I think my Klipsch sf-2 kick ***. I don't give a **** what anyone thinks about them they will play lower than most of the reference models. And thats what i like about them and they are really warm and detailed. Different taste for different people. Their alot better than my older jbl's and i owned a few of them. Blew all my jbl's but my last pair. I don't know why i kept going back to them. Probally because they are so easy to come by everybody and their brother is selling them. But i wish i still could get a good deal on some ss.1 surrounds but it is hard now because of best buy. I was about to score a new pair for 200 before bb took over. Synergy's are probally the back bone of klipsch. People that don't know to much about home theater usually buy the htib. People with a knowledge of good sound on a budget look for a speaker that wont break the bank and have enough money for a good amp. I am sure i will end up with reference or heritage in the long run. But better sounding i'll be the judge of that. Only if the room allows they will be better. To many people buy thinking bigger is better when they are getting overkill and at best are degrading their sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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