wheelman Posted March 6, 2004 Author Share Posted March 6, 2004 I had my old set up with towers just as towers and treated them like my stereo mains. Let them have port room to breath. Man i swear it was the best i heard you could swear you were outside. This is with dolby surround not prologic or dd or dts. Back in the day. Oh i had them in the rear corners but out a bit. People thought the cops were coming and ambulances were driving by all the time. When it was in the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Wheelman, sounds like you have had a time or two with all kinds of loudspeakers. I agree that when there are some touch acoustic constraints, thats the time for bipoles. I too have had good results with monopole bookshelf speakers in tight quarters. I'm a little happy tonight because I just picked up another pair of Klipschorns and a Bell for $1,000 less than the last set. That give me four Klipschorns and four Belles... and now according to T2K, all I need is to find a pair of KSP-S6's so I can hear the Tide roll in from every reflective surface in the room... and sensitive they are not! But that's okay, T2K is sensitive enough as it is... and since they go all the way down to 60 Hz, why doggone, he can always use them as a BamaSlamma Subwoofa! Seriously, Wheelman, enjoy... experiment... that's what this audio bit is all about. Oh, yeah, and for a little Tidy comic relief... Talk-to-Keith! -HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 ---------------- On 3/7/2004 1:09:11 AM HornEd wrote: Wheelman, sounds like you have had a time or two with all kinds of loudspeakers. I agree that when there are some touch acoustic constraints, that’s the time for bipoles. I too have had good results with monopole bookshelf speakers in tight quarters. I'm a little happy tonight because I just picked up another pair of Klipschorns and a Bell for $1,000 less than the last set. That give me four Klipschorns and four Belles... and now according to T2K, all I need is to find a pair of KSP-S6's so I can hear the Tide roll in from every reflective surface in the room... and sensitive they are not! But that's okay, T2K is sensitive enough as it is... and since they go all the way down to 60 Hz, why doggone, he can always use them as a BamaSlamma Subwoofa! Seriously, Wheelman, enjoy... experiment... that's what this audio bit is all about. Oh, yeah, and for a little Tidy comic relief... Talk-to-Keith! -HornEd ---------------- Drove by a sewage treatment plant today 'bargain ed' and thought of you, both are full of $hit! Funny, huh? Talk about comic 'relief'! You likey? Still looking for S-6's ? I remember the last time you e-mailed me looking for a pair. I found a new pair at a dealer close to you. I've still got them. If I can help you again just let me know. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Actually Keith, I picked up a couple of Klipsch SS-1's (described by Klipsch as the first true WDST speakers) and found out that your bias was not in my ears best interest. I took you at your word and tried it your way. You may be in the Heart of the South... but your ears stuck in the muddy waters after the Tide ran out. I don't think your outhouse opinions will earn a "Peace of mn Pie" award either! =HornEd PS: PWK may be dead... but there still isn't a WDST surround in the Heritage line... do you think those Klipsch engineers may have missed a "whammaBammaThankyaMamma" opportunity? Oh, yeah, Keith get a spell checker it may dispel your vintage WDST fixation and make the level of your spelling Tide-worthy! And, hey, about your avatar... you seem to be just a shadow of your former avatar... maybe you need a "bargain ed" fix like the Klipschorns and Belle that I am picking up this morning for under two grand. A little monopole Heritage clarity could do wonders for a mindset in stone... "Here lies Keith... mostly about obsolete Synergy Sound Sprayers"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beesley Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Home Theater room: I'm running Klipsch KSF-S5 WDST for my FL, C, FR, SR, SL, and dual KSP-S6s via sub-preout for the 60-100hz range. Awesome for classic Arnold NNNGGGAAAHHHH!! grunt surround sound effects. Living room: Five lascalas and two SVS CS ultras, great reproduction of classic Schwarzenegger one line phrases, never knew his voice was so full.......... .....J/K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 7, 2004 Author Share Posted March 7, 2004 Horn i need to buy a viking to english translation book. You must be rich A. Send me some cashola cabola from Calola to wheelola a.s.p.ola comprendola Me thanks ola. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 ---------------- On 3/7/2004 9:39:07 AM HornEd wrote: Actually Keith, I picked up a couple of Klipsch SS-1's (described by Klipsch as the first true WDST speakers) and found out that your bias was not in my ears best interest. I took you at your word and tried it your way. You may be in the Heart of the South... but your ears stuck in the muddy waters after the Tide ran out. I don't think your outhouse opinions will earn a "Peace of m n Pie" award either! =HornEd PS: PWK may be dead... but there still isn't a WDST surround in the Heritage line... do you think those Klipsch engineers may have missed a "whammaBammaThankyaMamma" opportunity? Oh, yeah, Keith… get a spell checker… it may dispel your vintage WDST fixation and make the level of your spelling Tide-worthy! And, hey, about your avatar... you seem to be just a shadow of your former avatar... maybe you need a "bargain ed" fix like the Klipschorns and Belle that I am picking up this morning for under two grand. A little monopole Heritage clarity could do wonders for a mindset in stone... "Here lies Keith... mostly about obsolete Synergy Sound Sprayers"... ---------------- I've heard the Heritage speakers you brag so often about ed. Real ear bleeders. No thanks. Try helping/encouraging the young folk here rather than criticizing them and their gear and bragging incessantly about what YOU have. Heck, we're talking about speakers for heavens sake. Big deal. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 7, 2004 Author Share Posted March 7, 2004 Thanks everyone. I bet their going to be a heck of alot better than my itsy bitsy cambridge soundworks speakers. Peace!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Wheel... did you get enough love? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 8, 2004 Author Share Posted March 8, 2004 Moon more than enough. It didn't start that way did it. By the way Horn ed about thx. Most thx theater do not have dipole speaker in them if any they recomend them as for hometheater. That is why they recomend the dipole for smaller living rooms. And they do have thx certified monopole surrounds i do believe atlantic technologies was one of the first to bear the badge. I used to get alot of sound and vision and hometheater mags. Nothing like a good audio video mag on the crapper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Hmmm, Wheelman, it looks like its time for another HornEd update on the Rise and Fall of George Lucas and t2k in their quest to impose standards on the audio world. THX (Tomlinson Holmans Experiment) originally funded by George Lucas in 1983, THX Ltd. was an attempt to set minimum projection and audio standards in commercial movie houses and, later, other film related venues. Tomlinson Holman was a noted audio engineer in Lucas Films employ who was given the opportunity to experiment with ways to make every seat in a commercial theater a good seat (rather than an excellent audio vantage point). Given the wide variety of quality fluctuations in movie houses, raising the level of movie goers expectations was indeed a good thing. Over 4,000 movie houses have been certified as meeting the THX standard. It is significant to note, however, that one of the problems that face movie house owners is that monopole speakers allow the human ear to relay to the brain the direction and timbre of sound by comparing the first direct sound with the subsequent reflections of that sound as they strike both ears. Bipole, dipole, and to a lesser extent tripole (like WDST) confuse ones ears by minimizing or eliminating direct radiated sound so that the ears are flooded with reflected sounds arriving very close together. The ears then signal the brain that the sound is overwhelming a very unnatural experience in the real world but one that evens out the sound quality in a acoustically challenged movie house or home environment so that all seats appear equal to the ears. The THX video program was created for LaserDiscs and enjoyed much success and respect for that transitional audio video format. However the translation of the experimental LaserDisc program to DVDs has been far less successful and THX certification of a DVD is no longer indicative (nor does it assure) superior quality. Commercial audio and video manufacturers rejected the high fees and questionable standards that George Lucas was imposing. Klipsch was one of the companies that phased out much of its THX approved line. The movie makers (except, of course, Lucas Films) also found the THX certification too expensive and too limiting of emerging audio technology. In fact, 80% of the ownership of the THX Ltd. has been sold to a firm in Singapore and THX Certification standards have been widened considerably. The list of THX certified equipment for commercial theaters is designated by KPT in the loudspeaker designation. Despite the Forums self-appointed guardians (T2) insistence that audio engineers have opted for bipoles, dipoles and tripoles in professional audio, the THX standards now allow multiple direct radiating monopoles along the theater walls to better reveal subtleties in timbre and direction and still flood the ears with enough sound to make every seat in the theater appear good if not excellent. Serving billions of smallish but standardized burgers and speakers have made McDonalds and Bose the leader in their respective fields and I will even go so far as to say they improved the bottom end of performance in the food and audio industries. And there is a market for gut feed audio for the masses but the Tide of Quick Fix Audio Burger Surrounds is out and more and more Klipsch aficionados are opting for all the increased realism that is available on the modern mix of DVDs released for home use. Hey, it may take a bit more in time, knowledge and resources to put together the ideal cost and pleasure effective Klipsch system in your listening environment but thats why this Forum makes Klipsch stand out among loudspeaker manufacturers. And, certainly, some of us have been blessed with the opportunity to take our audio notions over the top by most standards. Do I think my Heritage multi-channel hero Q-man is bragging when he helps Forum folk understand his system and helps them improve theirs? Do I think my Heritage history hero Tony Reed is bragging when he outlines his extensive Klipsch loudspeaker collection and clears up the confusion of what PWKs thoughts from his first hand perspective? Do I think that my HDBRbuilder hero Andy is bragging when he reflects upon his years of actually building Klipsch Heritage loudspeakers in the Hope, AR, manufacturing plant and then helps Forum members with their own challenges? Do I think that my sub diving hero TheEar(s) is bragging when he crowds his room with standing room only waves and then advises all who ask what the realities of their own sub situation may be? And the list of Forum folk (including genuine Klipsch minions) who push the envelope and then provide text and photos for those who care can follow that list, thankfully, goes on and on Well, if thats bragging all I can say is bring it on. Ive learned a ton of audio pragmatism from Forum folk like that and I believe that helping newbies look beyond entry level audio/burger technology. Getting a notion of what could be in ones own listening space not only strokes the desire for better audio it helps avoid the money pit aspects that the audio upgrade trail frequently imposes on the uninformed. And to my Pacific Northwest brother m00n, I too have applauded your plea for understanding and tolerance there are even hundreds of Forum posts that I have made over the years in that direction. I have attempted to help newbies from all over the map geographically, geopolitically, and across the cost-effective loudspeaker spectrum. It seems that I seem to trigger a raw nerve in t2k and, admittedly, his perceived singular narrow-mindedness offends my free-spirited ears but I do not hate the Crimson Tide or Bama Alums. So, I hope my fellow Forum friends can excuse my half-m00n tolerance of our dumpster-diving, rhetoric spraying, surround sound exspurt as he pushes the disinformation envelope. As for my personal preference, I believe flooding my ears with sound to the point where they can no longer distinguish direction and timbre IS ear tyranny... I want my ears to be free to reveal to my mind the shades and nuances that make great audio a pleasure to pursue whatever one's economic circumstances may be. The bulk of "rich sound" can be found in understanding acoustic principles... it is the small improvements to approaching audio perfection that cost the big bucks. And, whatever the circumstances... the accent should be on audio enjoyment and not "jealously induced vitriol" (Wow, could that be a "m00nshot" heard around the Klipsch world?). Enjoy! -HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Ed, you're just a braggert and an a$$hole, and that is very apparent in all your posts. "Kiss a few a$$es, and they're all with me" seems to be your idealogy. You can't see the forest for the trees. This is the 'Home Theater' Forum. Not the 'Cinema' forum. Just as you stated, monopoles are directional. The WDST's mimic multiple monopole surrounds to give a diffuse surround effect. They were developed for 'home' use. The people you attempt to use for cover here are nothing like you. They have earned respect thru hard work with their hands, not their mouth. Let me tell you this and you can bank on it. I feel sorry for you and the people that have had to endure your arrogance. Your inability to discuss issues without belittling people and the State in which they live does not work. I will not stoop to your level to prove a point. People here are not as stupid as you think. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 8, 2004 Author Share Posted March 8, 2004 I have had great results with all surround speakers. I prefer bipole or tripole the more the better. As long as they have a good clarity it works best for my room. As for dipoles my brother had a setup that was just amazing literally the best i have ever heard and they were like 80 dollar technics. He basically had a room like mine rectangle but had his set up so you were seated looking down the hall effect and the way those dipoles would sound. Just amazing they had so much room to breathe it would put goose bumbs on your skin. As for thx i don't think I have ever seen them use dipole or bipole in a theater or their mixing studio. In their mixing studio they use B&W nautilus. But i definetely could be wrong. They recomend dipole's for living rooms and smaller home theaters and i can hear why. Flat out awesome if your room is right To get the effect like tk said. Thx can't be all that bad they practically invented surround sound. I will not buy something or pay more for it just because it has the thx logo. No way but i have heard awesome sounds come from a dipole speaker if the room was just right. They don't work for mine. That's why bipole or tripole are the way to go. Dipole are way to blurry in my room not enough room to breathe. And monopoles are good but i get gaps and localization that distracts you from paying close attention to the movie. Their are trade offs to all the designs their isn't a perfect one. The room is way more inportant to the overall sound. Except home theater in box ***ettaboutit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 You know, Keith, I always thought your previous Rolltide note indicated that you were a graduate of Bama and that your trash talk was the exuberance of youth. But I am now convinced that either I have a much greater opinion of the University of Alabama that it deserves... or you are just painfully unaware of anything but sales promos. Can anyone be that dense? And, since you have been around for half-a-century, I cannot attribute your foul mouth to youth. If you do not want to be exposed for the ignoramus you are, then don't bother putting my posts in your trash-minded, misinformed drivel. If you and Wheelman dig having your ears inundated with reflected glory rather than getting the real thing... have at it. Fortunately, there are quite a few of us on this Forum that respect things like timbre-matching and appropriate localization as intended by the sound mixers on DVD's, etc. If you persist in playing the fool, than I shall just formulate a standard "Keith Myth Disclaimer" and attach it as a PS to all of my posts that contain audio engineering considerations. It is only fair to the newbies that may take your drivel as serious stuff. Monopoles get aimed at listeners... bipoles, dipoles, and for the most part, tripoles away from the listener so that the listener only gets second hand sound bounced off whatever comic books you have framed on your walls. Have a nice day in your second hand sound barn! -HornEd PS: Wheelman, if you like what your doing to your ears and have found my way to be unacceptable in your listening environment... go for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtop Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Wheelman, I'd like to add something to maybe sweeten to this discussion thread. We all seem to like ice cream (aka home theater) just different flavors. HornEd seems to be a vanilla guy, sweet and traditional. Keith espouses the benefits of mint chocolate chip, rich but with a slightly different taste in each bite. And for every other guy with a home theater on this forum a different flavor depending on room size and budget. It's all still just ice cream and potentially satisfying according to the selections of each member. I have learned more useful stuff from guys on this forum in the last 1 1/2 years than I did on my own for the 15+ years before. And I thank everyone for sharing. I really hate it when the discussion degrades to "mine is better" or "you are wrong because you think yours is better". To me it's still just flavors of ice cream, you pick yours, I'll pick mine. Hey...anybody else getting hungry? Redtop P.S. I'm a monopole man myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 ---------------- On 3/8/2004 11:08:44 PM redtop wrote: I really hate it when the discussion degrades to "mine is better" or "you are wrong because you think yours is better". Hey...anybody else getting hungry? Redtop ---------------- I think with 4 side surrounds and 2 rears, I have a graveyard flavor going on in my theater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 MO-Personal attacks and threats. You are an old fool ed. Bite me. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 Horn ed i obviously no what monopoles are capable off and what their *not* i owned them for ten years at least. I respect everyones opinion. And had good results with both kind of surrounds. That's what is cool about this forum. Everyone's opinions, just when you forget about something someone brings it up.If i could put speakers behind me i would by towers but i cant'. I am just glad i am getting klipsch surrounds. I may not be the smartest person but i have been in this hometheater hobby since pretty close to the beginning of it's conception to the average consumer that i know off. My first av receiver was dolby surround receiver before prologic. I have been into it since high school ( I know you would think i would be smarter) or at least well spoken. It is defenitly time for some different ice cream not because i think vanilla is better than strawberry but because i like variety. I have quite a sweet tooth so i may be looking for some raspberry in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 ---------------- On 3/8/2004 11:37:39 PM T2K wrote: MO-Personal attacks and threats. You are an old fool ed. Bite me. Keith ---------------- MO? Keith? Whats that mean? I have to say... You two ol-farts (notice I didn't say old) are giving me the giggles... Keep this up in a few years and you two will be whipping out the canes and shaking them at each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 MO must stand for modus operandi - or mode of operation. Basically a set way of doing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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