Audible Nectar Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Q: "The question is SS or Tube... It will be 50/50 HT and 2ch. I am not looking to spend a whole bunch here, around $1,500 or $2,000. I have absolutely no experience with Tubes. except for guitar pre-amps. I will do some searches on the forum about the little questions. I guess I just want some opinions on tube amps. What are the best for the money. The corvette or the tube amps... still get blown away by the Ferrari, porsche, and the Lambo's... but enough to kick some @$$." Our panel responded: "Malotky's Khorns sound glorious with his SS Macs. Superb." "Hi powered SS Mac gear is the only intelligent choice" I totally agree with the McIntosh solution. Given the $2000 budget, this allows for 3 MC250's at $400 each (6x50 high quality McIntosh watts) - and that will get you good condition units. This leaves $800 for a pre/pro - which leaves many good used options on the table. Expand the budget a smidge, or save a few bucks on the MC250s, and there's room for more pre/pro choices. 1000 buys many good used pre/pros for theater these days. If you want tube type sound and low maintenance, the Mcintosh are wonderful - the MC250, 2100, 2505, and 2105 are excellent in this regard. It's the no-brainer - fits like a glove - low maintenance - very attractive looking solution to your issue. It's all summed up with Audible Nectar's postulate #1: (Heritage klipsch) + (Mcintosh amplification) = YUMMY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 The Macs are interesting, but I can't keep track of all the models. I know some are "better" than others -- are there any favorites? I know I'm going to get raked over hot coals for saying this -- but my horns just seem to sound better with things that limit bandwidth somewhat -- just a little. The very high bandwidth amps that I've tried, whether SS or tubes -- just sound too damn icey and aggressive. Like I always say, "debate" is a waste of time. You just have to try some different things to see what you like. It sucks -- but that's just the way it is. If it were up to me, everyone would own MK IIIs, QUADS, good Quicksilvers, and VRDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Here's the Roger Russell McIntosh history page.....it will help you get a feel for the model numbers: http://www.roger-russell.com/aboutmc.htm I mentioned the 250, 2100, 2505, and 2105 units because they were crafted to sound like the tube amps Mac made - some would say "that vintage rolled off sound". I like to call them "rounded" - to my ears, what some buy tubes for, yet they have SS testicles. I think that's why I love them so much with the Heritage. I have heard others comment that they like the newer versions better, but those tend to be a bit more extended and modern sounding (although they are still Macs, but we're talking relative here) and less like the tube-ish 250. Jim Tidwell has discussed this before, and maybe can share some comments on the newer Mac SS stuff. For those wanting to bring tubish sound to the HT (where tubes are much less cost effective) the early Mac SS amps work great - and are a very good low maintenance 2 channel solution, too, for those not wanting to "go tubes". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny dB Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 I prefer the Scott 299 over the MC-250 hands down in my setup. As much as I liked seeing McIntosh in my rack, "tube-like" sound is just not tube enough for me. How about this for a HT solution: Pioneer DV-563, Scott 99D, 2 Scott 299B, and an SVS sub. Sounds amazing and can be had for about $2k! You also have SACD and DVD-A capabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 On 4/10/2004 10:33:45 AM Johnny dB wrote: How about this for a HT solution: Pioneer DV-563, Scott 99D, 2 Scott 299B, and an SVS sub. Sounds amazing and can be had for about $2k! You also have SACD and DVD-A capabilities. with any quality type system...(k-horns)... the pioneer dv-563 is definitely the wrong choice..... a friend of mine got that unit for use with a mid-fi denon/infinity setup..... was not happy at all with it's performance.... we substituted my sony dvp-nc650v and the sound clarity and depth improved very noticibly.... (the sony is dvd/sacd.... no dvd-audio).... i believe the current model is the dvp-nc685v... goes for about $250 as you know.... klipsch speakers reveal weakness in the signal chain..... and the pioneer unit is definitely a weak link in the above chain.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Dean said: If it were up to me, everyone would own MK IIIs, QUADS, good Quicksilvers, and VRDs. What constitutes good Quick Silvers? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Tom----"Pride of Man", "Mona", "Who do You Love"; those were good ones by Quicksilver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soeren Basboell Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 minn male42, I was trying to explain why my amplifier is more expensive than the cheapest although the price is maybe 15% of the more expensive amplifiers. 1) Try to find the cheapest product on the market where Elma based attenuators is used instead of classical potentiometers. I guess that it is in preamplifiers in the 3000 USD range, but try for yourself. That it, and some other things, has an effect could I see when I replaced an ordinary Tripath whith the one I am using now; I knew it was better but not how much before my wife without being asked said: "This is really, really good". It was on our primitive system in our house in France, a cheap but reasonable CD player + some DIY one way speakers with a 5" driver from Monacor in each. Really nothing to write home about. You can imagine the difference between that and khorns, Goldmund, Orthofon Rohmann, air cushion arm, a 20 kilogram DIY preamp and so on here in eastern Greenland where I live. 2) When you are buying a typical industrial product the price of the raw materials is in the order of 10% of the retail price. The rest is distribution, marketing and other things not related to the product itself. I can keep this relation to at least 50% but only if am using really high end components. Where I find it relevant and critical for the sound quality, I use very good and expensive components; much less when I find it unimportant, but often after having builded different versions of the same amplifier. 3) Something giving a little confusion here is that probably because there is only one supplyer of spread spectrum chips on the market, that technology is always associated with the same name and people think therefore that 'Tripath sounds like Tripath', which is not the case, not more than 'SS sounds like SS' and tubes like tubes. ------ I am planning to make a better - and more expensive - version in the future, but it will take quite a long time and I do not know if the differences will be audible. In the mean time I am offering this model for test. Unfortunately I did not reach to send it to Kelly when he had the Leok version, it could have been most interesting. Søren PS. The dollar is low for the moment, take that into consideration when looking at the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 ---------------- On 4/10/2004 11:23:17 AM Soeren Basboell wrote: minn male42, I was trying to explain why my amplifier is more expensive than the cheapest although the price is maybe 15% of the more expensive amplifiers. 1) Try to find the cheapest product on the market where Elma based attenuators is used instead of classical potentiometers. I guess that it is in preamplifiers in the 3000 USD range, but try for yourself. That it, and some other things, has an effect could I see when I replaced an ordinary Tripath whith the one I am using now; I knew it was better but not how much before my wife without being asked said: "This is really, really good". It was on our primitive system in our house in France, a cheap but reasonable CD player + some DIY one way speakers with a 5" driver from Monacor in each. Really nothing to write home about. You can imagine the difference between that and khorns, Goldmund, Orthofon Rohmann, air cushion arm, a 20 kilogram DIY preamp and so on here in eastern Greenland where I live. 2) When you are buying a typical industrial product the price of the raw materials is in the order of 10% of the retail price. The rest is distribution, marketing and other things not related to the product itself. I can keep this relation to at least 50% but only if am using really high end components. Where I find it relevant and critical for the sound quality, I use very good and expensive components; much less when I find it unimportant, but often after having builded different versions of the same amplifier. 3) Something giving a little confusion here is that probably because there is only one supplyer of spread spectrum chips on the market, that technology is always associated with the same name and people think therefore that 'Tripath sounds like Tripath', which is not the case, not more than 'SS sounds like SS' and tubes like tubes. ------ I am planning to make a better - and more expensive - version in the future, but it will take quite a long time and I do not know if the differences will be audible. In the mean time I am offering this model for test. Unfortunately I did not reach to send it to Kelly when he had the Leok version, it could have been most interesting. Søren PS. The dollar is low for the moment, take that into consideration when looking at the price. ---------------- i was not being critical of your amp or your pricing.... i was just offering another choice for the original poster to consider..... a choice that i use with great success!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny dB Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 minn-male, I know the Pioneer is a cheap player but for my purposes it works very well. Maybe it was a synergy problem w/ your friends Denon and the DV-563A. There's also mods that can be done to the Pioneer. Regardless, I am quite satisfied with this setup. Also, I'm not completely sold on either DVDA or SACD. There's just not enough music that I listen to on either format. I'd hate to put all my eggs in one basket, MiniDisc comes to mind. I just don't see both formats sticking around. The only thing that blows is no remote for volume and turning up or down the volume is a pain, because I have 3 volumes to control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 ---------------- On 4/10/2004 10:33:45 AM Johnny dB wrote: "I prefer the Scott 299 over the MC-250 hands down in my setup. As much as I liked seeing McIntosh in my rack, "tube-like" sound is just not tube enough for me." ---------------- I agree, that's why I patiently await the arrival of my BEZ 300B SET. As much as I love my MC250 and it's tube-like smoothness, I know there's no substitution for that tube-like magic than to have tube amplification! I love that ol' Mac, and I could very easily live with this SS amp (definately warmer and smoother than the newer autoformerless MC7200 I owned before), but to really experience what tubes are all about with Klipsch loudspeakers, than that's the direction one must take. And now that my younger brother has a 12 watt PP Dared VP-16 6V6 integrated amp to drive his KG 3.2s, there's no turning back to SS for him (and he loves his big MOSFET Adcom GFA 5400 class A amp as much as I do my MC250)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 ---------------- On 4/10/2004 2:21:19 PM Johnny dB wrote: minn-male, I know the Pioneer is a cheap player but for my purposes it works very well. Maybe it was a synergy problem w/ your friends Denon and the DV-563A. There's also mods that can be done to the Pioneer. Regardless, I am quite satisfied with this setup. Also, I'm not completely sold on either DVDA or SACD. There's just not enough music that I listen to on either format. I'd hate to put all my eggs in one basket, MiniDisc comes to mind. I just don't see both formats sticking around. The only thing that blows is no remote for volume and turning up or down the volume is a pain, because I have 3 volumes to control. ---------------- if you get a chance - try a different multichannel player and you might be surprised at the sound difference...... as for the music available.... do some searching online.... there really is quite a few titles out there.... esp if you are into jazz or classical.... here's one great source... http://www.amusicdirect.com/ cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 ---------------- On 4/9/2004 11:04:22 PM TBrennan wrote: Malotky's Khorns sound glorious with his SS Macs. Superb. ---------------- Thanks Tom. I sure enjoy my setup. Todd, seriously, email me and come over to hear my Khorns for both 2 CH and HT. Mayville is only 1/2 hour away from my house. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgourlie Posted April 10, 2004 Author Share Posted April 10, 2004 I will have to do that. I think I may have to go listen to some of everything. Then when I get a few ideas I can post witch ones I liked to get some responses from people who maybe have that equipment hooked up to their horns. J-M I'll email you this week sometime to setup a time that is good for both of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.