Brass Question

[HDBRbuilder]

Casting the K-400 will require a two-piece core...with the smaller piece core (towards the throat) made solid or at least with a very small interior hollow for the castings. Whoever originally did the casting of the aluminum K-400 horns for Klipsch did a pretty shoddy job of making the core boxes for the two-piece cores. I would have been embarassed to have been the maker of those core boxes! Look into the mouth of any K-400 and it is easy to see where one of the cores ended and the other began...really shoddy core-box work! Good work would have never shown that...there would be no seam to see at all!...MUCH LESS the step-down you see in the K-400! That step-down should NOT be there! I have done pattern and core work for iron, brass, bronze and aluminum foundries. The pattern is fairly easy to make for those horns...apparently the core-box maker for the originals believed he knew what he was doing...LOL!...but he didn't!

[jt1stcav]

My shoddy squawker...wish Andy was in charge of their manufacture as well.

[jt1stcav]

The actor Joe Kearns (Mr. Wilson from the original "Dennis the Menace" show) was an avid theatre organist; I believe he owned his own residence WurliTzer theatre pipe organ, but I'm not sure. Here he is tuning a rank of pipes...the brass colored resonators on the right are either from a brass sax or a brass trumpet rank. I would assume that Craig's pipe he just received would look very similar to one of the pipes from that brass rank.

Caution...never tune a brass sax or brass trumpet without ear plugs! With well over 110dB sound pressure level produced from about 7" of wind pressure coming from a single note played only a foot away from your ears...well, you get my point!

Sorry to get off topic a little...Andy, about that brass lens...

[JJJeffries]

Hello Fellow Posters:

That particular Wurlitzer Pipe Organ came from a sound studio with additions from several Wurlitzers that were yanked from area movie palaces.

Joe Kearns had the instrument installed in his home and several of the finest theatre organists released LPs on it.

George Wright and Lyn Larsen are two that come to mind. A close friend and a fantastic theatre organist friend loved its sound. It was a very lush and intimate sound.

I don't recall which pipe room Joe is in. In fact, I believe the instrument may very well have been in a single chamber. I need to ask my friend. I do know the instrument contained a 61 note Brass Trumpet and that PIC could very well be it. Both the Brass Trumpet and Brass Saxophone look the same.

The horns for my KHorns will have the same look. I plan on having a battle horn mounted on the top of the KHorns that will grunt and growl and make a sound much like a fog horn which was invented by the father of the theatre pipe organ Englishman Robert Hope Jones.

I will build a small static device that I will play from a keydesk and will be powered by a heavily modified Hoover Vac. OUCH! LOL!

In my new home the look and sound will be simply magnificent!

I blew the Brass Trumpet this morning on the back forty and with limited air from yours truly Bullwinkle was in the neighborhood. LOL!

Well, back to the drawing board. Always searching and looking for that perfect horn sound!

As the late Glenn Miller said, his famous sound of his orchestra didn't happen overnight. He is one band man I wish I had known.

When I tried out for the high school band I was asked who made the biggest impact on me. That was an easy answer. Glenn Miller!

I play trombone and also sax and Rome wasn't created in a day or month or year.

Having been a broadcaster for nearly 40 years I interviewed the greats of the bone. Urbie Green...Buddy Morrow...shook hands with Tommy Dorsey when I was 8 back in November 1951. I also shook his brother Jimmy's hand in 1952. He played sax. WOW!

I am a Brass man all the way!

Best,

Craig

Broadcast standard equipment. Too numerous to mention!

[jt1stcav]

Here's the Wicks 8' English Trumpet from my dad's residence pipe organ. Not brass, natch, but you're typical spotted metal, and a much smaller scale as well. The chestwork is brand new built entirely by him, along with the braces and regulator (after designs from Aeolian-Skinner and Moller).

The wooden half-length resonators behind the trumpets is the bottom octave of the Austin 8' Oboe. This 16' Contra Bassoon is in the pedal division, and gives ample snarl and bite to the organ's bass notes! What's special about this bottom 12 notes is that he built these pipes entirely from scratch! These home-made pipes blend perfectly with the oboe in the swell division...very impressive indeed! Also the offset chest they're seated on is brand new built by him. I wish I had his talent, but alas, I'm not mechanically inclined.

I wonder if you attracted any wild male moose out in your back forty with your brass mating call?

I cannot wait to see the finished brass horns...wonder how long it'll take to cast and finish?

[JJJeffries]

Hello Fellow Posters:

That's a really spectacular array of pipework. I remember when dear Virgil Fox allowed me to explore the huge Aeolian-Skinner pipe instrument in Riverside Church in Manhattan. I was stunned at all the great chambers to explore.

My grandfather's first cousin taught Virgil at Peabody Conservatory in Baltimore and cousin Prof. Fred Weaver opened all kind of doors for me.

He also taught Dick Leibert of Radio City Music Hall fame. I have been in so many different instrument chambers. It always amazes me.

My main interest is theatre. However, I never turn down an invite to see, hear and sometimes play the instrument.

Per usual, I have many irons in the fire and this will be one extremely busy year.

A new home, my ad agency business, voiceovers all over the place. Helping friends start up a new Jazz FM operation, the new KHorn Brass Horns...sailing my boat out of Gloucester, Mass. and having the movers move everything as safely as is humanly possible.

The birth of the thought of doing Brass horns has been in the back of my mind for a number of years.

When I overheard a chap at the local Agway store say he had two large loudspeakers he wanted removed from the house he had just purchased and the Agway franchise owner say the junk man will take them, I just had to step up to the plate and I said I would take them off his hands. That made the possibility of the Brass horns all come together.

I posted elsewhere this fantastic find. However, when we went into his living room I had to bite my lip from saying WOW, KHorns!

I drove to a friends home, borrowed his p/up and asked three Lock Haven University students if they wanted to make a quick few bucks and help me move some large loudspeakers.

As we backed out of the driveway the chap who gave me the 1979 rosewood finished KlipschHorns said thank you for helping me get rid of those big ugly boxes. LOL!

Sometimes in life you just have to step up to the plate.

Best,

Craig

Standard broadcast equipment. Too numerous to mention!

[jt1stcav]

I wish I had seen Virgil in concert, but never got the chance. His Heavy Organ concerts at the Filmore East and Winterland West would've been a blast! All those hippies that usually listened (and got stoned) to Jimi Hendrix, The Who, and The Doors, were really turned on to Bach on the mighty Rodgers (and later Allen) touring organs...how freakin' cool was that, man?

Imagine how Virgil Fox, E. Power Biggs, Michael Murray, Carlo Curley, Fredrick Swann, Anthony Newman, Simon Preston, and Jean Guillou will sound performing on a high-pressured trumpet en chamade through your soon-to-be-made brass horns...awesome immediately comes to mind!

[JJJeffries]

Hello Posters:

Virgil was fabulous on pipes. So was George Wright. Speaking of pipes, I asked my theatre organ artist friend and is here the story on the Kearns instrument.

The Kearns organ had two chambers, one on the first floor and the second on the second floor speaking straight down the staircase. Even though this sounds like it would not be successful, it worked very well.

The instrument had a Brass trumpet and a Brass saxophone on the organ.

As I noted last night it had been built by Wurlitzer for a Hollywood sound studio and had some alterations for this purpose.

So there you have it. The instrument now sings in Columbus, Ohio.

Best,

Craig

Broadcast standard equipment. Too numerous to mention!

[jt1stcav]

The Kearns' twin chambers one above the other wasn't so strange. How about Joe Stock's WurliTzer layout? His chambers were all in the basement of his cape cod, and the organ spoke through grates on his livingroom floor. Now that Mike Foley owns this instrument, its chambers are now in the traditional location just behind the front wall of his massive music room, with the console elevated on a solid platform just to the left of the front wall (a grand piano sits across on the right).

[jt1stcav]

Looks like your moose call worked...looked what the cat dragged in!

[johnnyp]

It already been said that there is no reason a K-400 could not be cast in brass. If klipsch were still using the cast metal K-400, the only difference would the huge cost difference in the price of brass vs. AL.

But since klipsch no longer uses cast metal K-400's, the pattern for the brass horn is a problem. It will be a tremendous pain you-know-where to develop an accurate K-400 pattern replica.

Klipsch probably buys their new lexan K-401 from an vendor who specializes in injection molded lexan products. Contact them to mold you several K-401's in wax. Then you can have your horns cast in brass using the lost-wax or precision molding process. The advantage is better finish and no mold lines inside the horn flare!

[jt1stcav]

John, read this thread...

http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=50319&sessionID={1946E9C5-FAB9-4056-98E4-1C8D260527DE}

[Coytee]

Any updates on the brass horns?

[Jeff Matthews]

Bet it didn't work out.

[Duke Spinner]

Oooohh ......

Bad Idea, LeoK

[DRBILL]

This is a fool's errand from the start. To begin with, the WurliTzer pipes were made of sheet-brass with a spun brass bell. They were not cast. They sounded wonderful. But the "brass" ranks made by Skinner, Willis, Casavant, and yes, Wicks, were made out of the usual sheet-zinc and lead/tin alloy and sounded even better and were easier to regulate and tune. The most famous of these is the horizontal State Trumpet at the Cathedral of St. John the Divine in NYC, built by Skinner.

If anyone is interested in blowing away some money, cast the speaker horns in silver. It wont sound any different from brass or aluminum. It will have a very high voo-doo quotient.

DRBILL

[D-MAN]

I would like to point out a very important difference between performance (source) horns and reproduction horns.

The performance (originating source) horn is resonant by its nature, material, and design. This includes all brass instruments, organ pipes, and the like.

The reproduction horn (reproducing source) is specifically non-resonant! Think about it! You don't want it being resonant at any frequency that its trying to reproduce!

Basically, your apples and oranges thing.

DM

[jt1stcav]

This is a fool's errand from the start. To begin with, the WurliTzer pipes were made of sheet-brass with a spun brass bell. They were not cast. They sounded wonderful. But the "brass" ranks made by Skinner, Willis, Casavant, and yes, Wicks, were made out of the usual sheet-zinc and lead/tin alloy and sounded even better and were easier to regulate and tune.

The famous Skinner organ at the Knowles Memorial Chapel at Rollins College, Winter Park, FL, with it's horizontal Trumpette en Chamade rank.

I'm afraid everyone's right...it probably was a misadventure that turned out horribly wrong. Maybe it worked out, maybe it didn't, who knows. But it would've been interesting nonetheless to see and hear!

[JJJeffries]

Hello All:

The brass horns I had made I sold to a fellow audiophile who is using them in his Klipschorns. The sound is stunning. He had to add felt to the mouthpieces to stop any harmonics.

I had another brainstorm and am tweaking with ribbon tweeters. I have a posting on another portion of the Klipsch Forums.

Thanks to having been a member of the Boston Audio Society, I have truly become a tweaker of all tweakers. LOL!

Best,

JJ

[Marvel]

The big question everyone wants to ask is - DO YOU HAVE PICTURES? It would be nice to see the work... finished, being installed, etc. We love pictures here.

Bruce