Losing Bass on Heresy

[neo33]

Last night I was listening to Pink Floyd's "The Wall" and noticed that I am losing bass substantially eventhough the Heresies was placed very close to the backwall. The bass is still there well-defined and tight but just not forceful and authoritative. What happen to my bass?

[Deang]

Listening to "The Wall", with speakers against "the wall", causes out of phase wave cancellation.

Did you just move the Heresies? If so, where had they been sitting in relationship you where you sit? You could be sitting in a null spot. Just try moving them forwards a few inches.

[neo33]

"Listening to "The Wall", with speakers against "the wall", causes out of phase wave cancellation."

Wow! A divine revelation! Perhaps, I will get all of the bass back by playing the song backward.

[artto]

I guess the first question is have you changed anything ? And I mean anything. Speaker location, listening postion, furniture, connections?

I know this next postulation may seam kind of off-the-wall, but, you live in Chicago right? The weather around here has changed recently. I recall years ago, band rehearsals, when we were up in an attic, no air conditioning, and some days, especially warm humid ones, its seemed like I could never get any "push" out of the amp (bass player here). The sound just seemed to be lacking and wouldn't pull together. I don't know if it was a general power sag in the area or the weather or a combo of both. Just a thought.

[neo33]

"I guess the first question is have you changed anything ? And I mean anything. Speaker location, listening postion, furniture, connections?"

Artto, the only thing changed in my setup is the addtion of a Panamax 5510 AC Balanced Power Regenerator that got rid of the hum I complained about in another thread. Everything else remained the same.

My room is 12X12 in size. The Heresies (resided on stands with the horns at ears level) are placed a couple inches from the backwall, 6 feet apart and toed in until it converged at the listening position which is about 6 feet away. I am sitting right at the sweet spot.

[greg928gts]

You're just getting used to it.

It's like when you walk into the kitchen and smell freshly baked chocolate chip cookies. After a few minutes of sitting and eating them, you don't notice the aroma nearly as much. The term for this is "fatigue". The sensors in your nose become fatigued.

I believe this same thing happens with one's hearing when they listen to an audio system. It would explain why most of us constantly "upgrade" our system! Any self-respecting audiophile will always be looking for something a little better! Just a little more kick. Bring out the deep bass a little more.

What's interesting to me is when a year ago I switched to SET tube power and abandoned the idea of two 18" subwoofers to "compliment" my Khorns. Talk about a new start to the cycle!

Greg

[HDBRbuilder]

Heresys generally put out more bass when on the floor...that is where they were designed to be.

[neo33]

Interestingly enough, I get more bass when I played the vinyl version of "The Wall". I can't imagine the CD version is that bad. Any thought?

By the way, Greg, I haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about.

[jpm]

get a sub

[Timmikid]

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On 5/20/2004 6:32:18 PM neo33 wrote:

, the only thing changed in my setup is the addtion of a Panamax 5510 AC Balanced Power Regenerator

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Have you tried without? I've heard, I have no power reg., that with some setups you lose some dynamics. I'm no expert, just telling what I've heard, could be nonsense though. Try it anyway, to find a cause eliminate possibilities. I also agree that Heresies should be on the floor, preferably in the corner, just like K-horns. Another thing, I'm going to visit a fellow Heresy owner soon, who has upgraded his filter with better caps and wire. He says it also improves the bass, doesn't really extend it, but improves it. Although I think, if improvements can be heard they should be mostly mid and high-range.

Good luck, Tim.

[artto]

Kevin, the first thing Id do is take the Panamax out see if its affecting the system somehow.

Andy (HDR bldr) is correct about the Heresys being designed to not be on stands. So maybe thats contributing to the situation. There is less bass reinforcement on a stand since one of the boundary surfaces (the floor) is not able to provide as much coupling.

Im a big Pink Floyd fan & have used that recording as a reference for decades. The red Fender Jazz bass you see as my avatar was autographed by Roger Waters.

Reagrding Interestingly enough, I get more bass when I played the vinyl version of "The Wall". I can't imagine the CD version is that bad. Any thought?

Bare with me on this. Many years ago, before CD, my listening room was relatively new. It had substantial acoustical treatment even back then. When CD came along they all sounded thin & lacking in bass. What Ive discovered over the years is that there was an acoustical/mechanical coupling taking place with the TT/phono system. No matter what you do, the sound in the room is, to some extent going to induce some mechanical reinforcement, sort of like a feedback loop at the phono pickup stylus/arm/TT that gets re-amplified, no matter how well it is isolated as long as its in the same room. This is particularly apparent in the bass range. I suspect its even responsible for some enhancement in the middle & upper registers contributing to giving vinyl its characteristic sound. My room under went some acoustical changes in the early 90s for other reasons. But all of a sudden the bass from vinyl wasnt quite as heavy (or bloated as I would now call it) and CD had more body & was not as thin sounding. This lead me to wonder if people (including myself) were setting their systems up with a bias towards their existing or preferred format. After experimenting with this for a number of years Ive come to the conclusion that this is indeed the case. The current (4th) revision (still in progress) to the room appears to be confirming this further. As I get the room acoustically balanced for a truly neutral result, there is less & less difference between vinyl & CD, and certainly SACD. Some of this has included moving the TT to a slightly different location where there is bass cancellation instead of augmentation so there is less influence of the sound pressure inducing vibration to the TT/pickup/vinyl (I cant believe I used to have my TT in a corner opposite the Khorns thinking the sound absorbing material in that corner would take care of this).

So yes, there can be a very substantial difference, especially in the apparent bass & weight or fullness between vinyl & CD depending on the factors involved. In your case, the room is rather small which creates its own set of additional problems, especially since its the same dimension in 2 of 3 dimensions. I suspect moving the speakers or your listening position as little 6 or less, one way or another (horizontal or vertical) will have a significant impact on the sound. But unfortunately by doing that, what may sound better for one thing may make it worse for another.

[neo33]

"Im a big Pink Floyd fan & have used that recording as a reference for decades."

Well, I am a huge fan of Pink Floyd. I have virtually every of their albums ever released on CDs. And I am slowly collecting all of their vinyl albums that I can get my hands on.

[maxg]

Another big PF fan here. I have the whole collection of their albums on vinyl (it was the first test when I went back to the "dark" side - could I find them all?).

I have many of the albums on CD. No CD matches the bass and midrange of any of the vinyl offerings (including the Mobile Fidelity Japanese DSOTM CD that cost more than any other recording).

What Artto said is very interesting, however. I wonder how much of this additional "presence" is due to reinforcement back through the cartridge...

Now how do I test for that?