rloggie Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Does anyone have any experience with this type of output tube in a SET? Sound vs. 2A3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Lots of folks have 45 SET amps. More so on the Audio Asylum than here. The 45 tube is generally the migration path that a lot of tube/SET folks eventually migrate to. I did this also. I have a pair of 2A3 Moondogs, which I loved, but last year built a pair of Welborne DRD45 SET Monoblocks that I much prefer over the 2A3s. I listen to the 45s about 80% of the time now. From what I understand the 45 tube was used extensively in the old tabletop tube radios and older juxeboxes. Maybe they were designed to have a more musical quality - who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnBob Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 The original power amps (circa 1929) at the Fox Theatre in St. Louis were RCA amps using type 45 tubes. They sounded great and were cheerfully able to fill the 5000 seat theatre through the enormous speakers. Alas, they were discarded when the Fox was remodeled about twenty years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ho_Leung Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 I have a pair of fully modified Golden Tube Audio 300B's http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Amplifiers.html I recently purchased a Jeff Korneff 45 amp. I am using a set of Klipschorns/alk's The 45 has more than enough to power the Khorns. The Korneff amp is a superb amp. I have been rolling tubes, this amp continues to amaze. This is a really fine amp, and spends most of the time hooked up... For large orchestral or Big band Jazz the GTA rocks... for 1.8 watts Seriously the Korneff is not far behind. Don't let the wattage fool you the bass power comming from the 45 tube is HUGE.. the midrange is beyond reproach and the high end is incredible. 45' amps and Klipsch speakers .. incredible affordable high end audio.. forever ........................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 An aquaintance of mine has a Korneff 45 amp. It sounds good but quite compressed over Altec 605s and in terms of sound quality is really no better than an ASL amp I used with the 605s. The amp works better with the owner's Lowthers though compression is still in evidence. A pal uses a DIY double 45 PP amp on his system using a DR 15" JBL woofs and JBL compression drivers on Edgar saladbowls. VERY nice quality of sound if you disregard the compression. This drives the owner of the rig a little batty; he loves the tonality and detail of the 45s but is bothered by the compression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Tom, I'm not sure what you mean by compression. Could you say more about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 ---------------- On 7/9/2004 4:52:19 PM Ho_Leung wrote: Don't let the wattage fool you the bass power comming from the 45 tube is HUGE. ---------------- I noticed a similar thing when I heard some low-power amps Ron Welbourne made. The bass guitar went on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. It sounded unlike any bass I have ever heard before or since, totally uncontrolled. Do you have a big room for your Klipschorns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Dee---The system runs out of gas, the dynamics are limited; the music is calling for more volume and the amp can't supply the juice. So peaks in the music sound flat and blah. Like what happens when using cone-dome speakers. The worst example of this I ever heard was hearing a guys Bottlehead 2A3 amp driving the so called "Straight 8s", a particularly lousy DIY cone-dome speaker touted by that Bottlehead guy. The system sounded OK when playing "audiophile" recordings of little girl with guitar music. When I had the fella throw on "Lights Out" by UFO the system was totally incapable of producing the volume needed, it didn't come anywhere close, and I turned it all the way up. One could easily converse over the music. Now that's what I call serious compression. Now with better speakers, horns, the compression I'm talking about is more subtle and more a problemm of not handling peaks than of not being able to give adequate overall volume. IME much depends on a person's needs for volume; what his highest steady "background" level will be and then how much peaks will exceed that. When I lived in a house I played music and movies very loud on occasion and needed more power than I do now that I live in a high-rise. Now my 25 watt gain-clone is perfectly adequate on Altec Boleros. But in my house the gain-clone would not have been sufficient with my Altec 605s though probably adequate with my A5s, speakers considerabley more efficient than even Khorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Tom, Thanks for lining that out. Makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Since most of these amps have a damping factor of around 5 -- the "strong" bass is caused by an excess of second harmonic distortion riding on top of the fundamental. Dynamic compression is caused by a lack of headroom. A 1.8 watt should sound its best, and not "compress" if not run much beyond .5 watt continuous. I think this might drive a pair of Klipschorns cleanly to peaks a little over 90db at 9 feet away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 ---------------- On 7/10/2004 12:25:20 PM AK-4 wrote: Since most of these amps have a damping factor of around 5 -- the "strong" bass is caused by an excess of second harmonic distortion riding on top of the fundamental. Dynamic compression is caused by a lack of headroom. A 1.8 watt should sound its best, and not "compress" if not run much beyond .5 watt continuous. I think this might drive a pair of Klipschorns cleanly to peaks a little over 90db at 9 feet away. ---------------- 1/2 watt average power would be slightly in excess of 100db in an average room (104dbw/2). That would give up to about 106db without clipping, assuming the power supply can handle the load. Dynamic range would then be about 66db assuming 50db background noise. That is enough to damage hearing according to OSHA. You don't need a tremendous amount of power to enjoy Klipschorns. I think but don't have the data to proove that amplifier damping is not as much as a factor with a Klipschorn as with a ported speaker. The Khorn driver is in an airtight enclosure and is also loaded from the front end by the slot and horn. This limits the cone excursion and returns it to it's rest position more than the damping factor of the amp IMHO. Maybe one of the cone gurus has studied this effect? It's a matter of taste. Some fools even like liver.UCK!!!!!!!! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 ---------------- On 7/10/2004 1:15:46 PM 3dzapper wrote: 1/2 watt average power would be slightly in excess of 100db in an average room (104dbw/2). That would give up to about 106db without clipping, assuming the power supply can handle the load. ---------------- I assume you're talking about a single generated tone and not music. There is no such thing as a perfectly efficient speaker, and the nominal rating of an amplifier means only so much. Do you think that a 1.8W SET amp playing full-range music through Klipschorns to a 106dB peak will sound anything like a 40W push-pull amp with a 106dB peak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Paul, That really doesn't make a difference as it is unlikely anyone would use a 45 SET amp to listen at 100db. And, yes, 106db is 106db, quite loud. The only place that the 1.8 watts would fall short is a spike like the cannons on the Telarc disk and Bachman Turner Overdrive's opening bass lead on their first album. For a normal person listening to a jazz quintet in a normal room (that leaves you out) at 85-90db average SPL. that 1.8 watts with a proper power supply will sound teriffic. I have a little 1.8 watt or so single ended EL-84 amp that I play with from time to time. It will get the Khorns plenty loud with good detail but, the design leaves that particular amp bass shy. (I was going to use the audiopile word "tessitura" Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Where are you coming up with this 100db average and 106db peak ?? What is a average size room in you opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Rick, tes·si·tu·ra n. The prevailing range of a vocal or instrumental part, within which most of the tones lie. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 20x13x8. A Khorns efficiency is 104dbw, .5w is 3db down from 104db. With additions for multiple speakers and subtractions for distance and furniture, my little pea-brain figures that the sound pressure gauge would read just about 100db at the listening position. And, I have measured 100db with that little SEP amp in my room which is larger than that and open to the rest of the house at one end. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 ---------------- On 7/10/2004 3:23:23 PM Marvel wrote: Rick, tes·si·tu·ra n. The prevailing range of a vocal or instrumental part, within which most of the tones lie. Marvel ---------------- That's what I thought pure audiopile puffery. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Rick, I'm not sure where you got your math from but in my meager room with the my Lascalas toed near 45 degrees so that my setup is in a 9' triangle (I prefer near field listening) playing Santana's inner secrets first track keeping the music at a pretty much 1/2 watt output my radshack meter reported between 90 and 93dB averages at the listening position and peaks of 98db. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 ---------------- On 7/10/2004 3:34:10 PM NOSValves wrote: my setup is in a 9' triangle (I prefer near field listening) ---------------- Real card-carrying audiophiles have their arrangement set up in an 8' triangle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Well thank god I'm not a audiophile ! It even sounds bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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