Pair of 1955 Khorns?

[greg928gts]

I know a guy who is a Klipschophile like myself and he's had several pairs of Khorns over the years. One of the pairs of Khorns he says were 1955's with the wood midrange horn, the old-style grill cloth, as he put it, and the old-style logo in the cursive writing. He had the upper horn cabinets veneered and new grill cloth put on them and then sold them.

He described them to me in enough detail that I almost believe he's right about the vintage. But it would be very unusual to have a pair from that era wouldn't it?

He's tracked them down again and says they're for sale and wants to know if I want to buy them.

How much would this pair be worth if they really are 1955's?

I'm going to try to go see them and get the serial numbers and photos.

Greg

[sheltie dave]

Greg, the KJ-5 Khorns can go anywhere from $800 to $2K, in decent shape. You have read about Larry's discovery of the bass bin having the improper? mounting that reduced bass output a little. The mid/tweeter setup also starts backing off in the final octave. As an historical display, they are wonderful. They would also be quite good as a stand alone two channel, especially with similar vintage gear. They do come up a little short when compared to modern Khorns and Scalas, but that is part of the eye of the beholder viewpoint. If they would float your boat, go for it!

[Parrot]

An old pair made at the same time is very unusual, but not unheard of. Most people didn't get into stereo until the mid-to-late 1960s.

Some people like the sound of the early models better.

[khorn58]

The early khorn from the 50's have the same bass output as later ones.It was a early 60's cab that may have less output.But I am not so sure about that.

I have 4 khorns from the 50 and they all blow away any lascala.

As far as tone I like the smother sound of the early khorns drivers and midhorn ect. to me any many other s they are the holly grail of khorns. built back before price cuts cheapend the drivers buld and crossovers.

dont let anyone full you. The early khorns rock.

of all my khorns and lascalas the stock 51 sound the best

[sheltie dave]

Khorn58, I'm running the all vintage system upstairs, and my wife loves it. Her comment was "If it sounded this good in 1963, they didn't need to improve anything." A '63 Khorn and '59 shorthorn do the trick with a Scott 299C. I haven't opened the bass bin yet, but I hope when I do there is no extra board to be ripped out! There certainly is no perceived lack of lower bass with any classical or jazz we have played.

[Erik Mandaville]

Sheltie Dave:

"If it sounded this good in 1963, they didn't need to improve anything."

Why is it that wives often have such amazing insight, and are able to stab right to the core of things like this!?

It's why I'm really intersted in, as you do, an all vintage system -- at least for one of our systems.

[LarryC]

----------------

On 5/29/2004 4:23:41 AM sheltie dave wrote:

I haven't opened the bass bin yet, but I hope when I do there is no extra board to be ripped out! There certainly is no perceived lack of lower bass with any classical or jazz we have played.

----------------

Dave, if you don't perceive a lack of deep bass, I'd guess you're OK. In mine, the lowest notes, e.g., lowest string bass and organ, were extremely weak and the bass was noticeably weak throughout. In addition, the bass and midrange seemed to be at odds with each other and didn't blend well. As I reported, this was a transitory modification, from sometime in 1961 to sometime in 1962 or '63, so yours probably escaped it.

Be prepared for deteriorated sealing strips on the bass bin door and mounting board if you go in there.

Larry

[greg928gts]

O.k., what if they are consecutive serial numbered and signed by PWK? How much would you pay for these?

I got a little more information on them. They were in a dance hall for decades, maybe even since new, which would help explain why they were a pair from that mono era. I guess the tops were in real bad condition from people putting their drinks on them for all those years, so that's why the veneer was replaced. The grill cloth was very ratty looking too. He said the cloth was a pinkish color with gold speckles through it, so he replaced it. He said something about a plastic or plexiglass piece with the logo on it on each one? I don't know what that is.

I'm trying to set it up to go look at them and photograph them.

I need some help here! I need to know what kind of value these have before I plunk down the $$. The seller is talking somewhere around $4K.

Greg

[Parrot]

A matched pair from 1955 would be great to have. But $4000 is way more than the going rate. You'll know a lot more after you get to see them, as eye appeal is very important when you get into premium pricing.

[lynnm]

Consecutive serial numbers mean nothing in terms of performance although they might indicate that the drivers etc. are matchd.

Paul,s signature on the labels adds some value but only for those who give a damn.

$4000 is way too much for those speakers as described. I wouldn't consider paying more than $2500 unless they are in pristine condition.

[fini]

Greg only wants them so he can check out someone else's veneer job...

[Audible Nectar]

Sheltie Dave:

"If it sounded this good in 1963, they didn't need to improve anything."

My wife said the exact same thing last night about the MC-30's and the rest of our vintage setup. "They had it right in the 1950's - why would anyone mess with it?? It doesn't SOUND 50 years old - it sounds like brand new."

Proof that "Vintage" doesn't necessarily mean "sounding dated". Of course, internal updating of the electronics was necessary to achieve that level of performance, but good vintage gear can sound as good as anything sold new, provided the vintage unit in question was well designed and built in the first place. I think the 55 Khorns would qualify.

The 4K quote does sound a bit much......especially if they need work/cosmetic help. I must say, though - a '55 consecutively numbered pair signed by PWK sounds quite interesting.

[Q-Man]

They are not worth it.

There are too many mods to do to them to bring them up to the quality of the sound of the later Klipschorns.

The bass horn even needs to be changed a little, but that doesn't cost much. You need to buy a few T-nuts and and wood screws and eliminate the woofer mounting board.

[ZAKO]

$2000 would be a reasonable amount for 1955 khorns in good shape.

[khorn58]

"The bass horn even needs to be changed a little, but that doesn't cost much. You need to buy a few T-nuts and and wood screws and eliminate the woofer mounting board."

No change in the bass horn is needed if you keep the stock wood /glass midhorn. i thought the bass horn mounting board is also the phase plug so getting rid of it will just muck up the sound and probly drop out put.

To me updating a real vintage khorn from the Golden age will just kill the sound. The early mid horn is just so much warmer and detailed sounding compared to than the later plastic and metal horns.

On day will find the early khorns price riseover that of later ones( supply and demand) as more hear the early ones.

Just look what hapend to Fender Strats and Gibson les pauls from that from that a age. you can buy one for leess than 15 grand and some are over a 100 grand.It's a good time to pick up vintage khorn before they rise in Value.

[LarryC]

----------------

On 5/29/2004 9:38:07 AM Q-Man wrote:

...You need to buy a few T-nuts and and wood screws and eliminate the woofer mounting board.

----------------

Q, as I expect you know, he can only put a few T-nuts in the bass horn panel, because they have to be installed from the other side, and many of the necessary spots can't be reached from the other side because of horn side panels and dead spaces that block access.

Klipsch staff correctly advised me of this, and noted that the plywood panel has great screw-holding power. They suggested direct mounting using the largest wood screws that would fit through the woofer mounting holes and go nearly all the way through the 1/2" plywood. For more detail on how I did it, see my thread on restoring the bass horn throat at http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=47322&forumID=68&catID=19&search=1&searchstring=&sessionID={B9020C9D-92E9-461C-8C05-55489EC9CECE} -- sorry for not putting that into a link; I'm laid up and away from my information on how to do it.

Edit: I expect Khorn58 is right; the drivers, bass horn and network were all designed to work together, and I am told the total thickness (and height) of the port between the woofer and the actual bass horn throat plays a role in shaping the bass horn output curve, as 58 said.

Larry

[Q-Man]

The early bass horns suffer in output and clarity below 60Hz. Elimaniting the mounting board will correct this. The bass horn also begins to drop off above 300 Hz. The lower the crossover the better. That's why it was changed to 400Hz. These two mods improve the overall sound.

[Q-Man]

Larry,

I was able to get in four T-nuts per speaker, and then used four

wood swrews to finish the mounting of the woofer.

[LarryC]

Very good! I didn't see your two later posts until just now. Thanks -- Larry

[sheltie dave]

Greg, if you are going to bargain(and why not, as he has been smoking some wacky if he honestly believes 4k is reasonable,) point out the current going rate for used Khorns in the area that are cosmetically great. A pair of '55 Khorns from a skating rink or dance hall have been beat to heck and back are not prime real estate, even with PWK's intials.

Replacing the grille cloth and redoing the veneer has lost most all of the autentic period allure, so you are dealing with an old bastard child and brother that need adopting. Let him know the first production run Khorn here in St. Louis has yet to sell at $1500, and should fetch about $500 as a museum example. Your offer honestly depends on how much you want them, because I don't see you having a large market on resale for these, even as a gorgeous pair of 1955 Rosewood Khorns...