freddyi Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 hi Maron -- "waveguide folk" don't seem to like (the idea of) "Smith Horns" - Is there a Smith type about 16-19 inches wide? -where would that put the cutoff with 1 inch throat? Freddy here's a Karlson-coupler with large gap which sounded really good with a one inch Smith horn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 But listen real good Cut Throat, there is that "folded horn sound" on male speech and voices. Unless you run your midragne horns level way up, then you get a thin sound. Maybe you are just used to it, having had the Belles and all ? If you can live with it, it's all good. The folded horn has SO much to offer. I have no idea what you're talking about. You are invited to listen to my system any time your in the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 But listen real good Cut Throat, there is that "folded horn sound" on male speech and voices. Unless you run your midragne horns level way up, then you get a thin sound. Maybe you are just used to it, having had the Belles and all ? If you can live with it, it's all good. The folded horn has SO much to offer. I have no idea what you're talking about. You are invited to listen to my system any time your in the area. I am sure it sounds good wih that Altec Horn/Driver. I like the way you did the tweeter too. You do nice work, saw your belle's. You know, we all hear different, and are sensitive to different colorations. But every folded horn I have owned, and this pair makes 4 different ones, has that folded horn sound. This coloration is well known. ""The Cerwin-Vega! folded horns have been acoustically optimized to achieve high output and low distortion while maintaining clarity and impact. Special attention to rear chamber, throat geometry and horn profile results in a folded horn design that doesn?t exhibit the typical horn coloration of our competitors horns." I have had 3 Klipschorns, One SpeakerLab SK, Frazier Dixielanders, and Belle Klipsch. All 4 speakers had it, some worse then others. The Fraziers were the lowest in this coloration, perhaps because they do not go very low at all ? No speaker is perfect. I just prefer a direct radiator handling lower midrange duties from what I have heard, but that is just me. YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Is YOUR Smith Horn a wooden one Maron ? And, is it on a Klipschorn Bottom ? How low does it go down in frequency. I haven't seen any that weren't wooden. The JBL 2397 looks like it was made out of particle board. The edges look a little too rough for MDF. JBL recommends an 800Hz crossover point, but that has to do with the driver. I think the horn cutoff is around 325Hz, but I can't find my reference to it right now. Attaching a pic of a beautiful one made by a gentleman on the Lansing Heritage forums. He made all the dimensions available at one time. They aren't two hard to construct if you have the tools. The have a WIDE horizontal pattern, which could be a problem on KHorns, since they fit into the corners. You don't need to go past 90 degrees. THe 2397 is around 140 dergrees. I have a copy of the 1951 article in Audio Engineering by Bob Smith, detailing the design. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Freddi,,,,,Waveguides are not horns.... Ka7 yes the Smith is wood. Mine are 32" wide good down to 400hz sitting on top of Klipsch bass bins... CD horns need EQ they fall off 6db per oct at top end and can be pretty humpy in the mids...Like the EV or JBL 2380 series. I have several size Smith horns....Bob Smith even designed one for JBL called JBL 2397 about 24" wide for a 2" driver. Even my small tweeters use a small Smith horn. Ka7,,Flying horns that far from bass bins might need some phase and time alignment...Are you up to that calculation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Marvel The 2397 is made from MDF and wood...They are pretty good,,Ive even used them down to 500hz ,,,Just dont crank them up to concert levels.....Wall reflections havnt bothered me that much... alot of paintings on the walls confuse the reflections.. It dont seem to mess up the imageing... I was worried at first... None of the guys coming over,, have,nt complained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Maron, Nice to hear that about your perception of the reflections. I still want to build a pair... but like all the other things I want to build, it probably won't happen. I do have one project that must get finished as it is a present for someone, but I'm still gathering parts. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 I will not be kidding on this thread. [] What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Man, just looking at these Smith Horns gets me hungry. They look like a big empty TACO. I can just imagine them stuffed with ground beef and guacamole sauce ? Maron, as far as flying the big CD Horns goes, I was just kidding. If I ever did use them, it woulld probably be Altec Model 19 style, sitting atop a direct radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Man, just looking at these Smith Horns gets me hungry. They look like a big empty TACO. I can just imagine them stuffed with ground beef and guacamole sauce ? Maybe I could mass produce them with injection molded corn meal...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 These were some 1200Hz Smiths, made out of MDF. The guy who made them did a really nice job. I think he had JBL 2420 drivers on these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Those just look like they might sound good. There is not much of a throat on these, huh ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 There is usually a throat adapter that goes on these... not easy to find and the castings apparently vary greatly in quality. But you are correct, there isn't too much there. The adapter handles the flare into the constructed wood horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Welllll.....Your better off without a throat adapter....Remember the driver already has its own throat between the phase plug and the outer casting of the driver,,,,The closer you couple the driver to the horn the better you are...In fact if you look at the new JBL drivers they strip away that extra transition horn length....The new theory and testing prove this out in lowering horn coupled distortion.....You bring the phase plug right up to the horn throat and start the flair earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Marvel The 2397 is made from MDF and wood...They are pretty good,,Ive even used them down to 500hz ,,,Just dont crank them up to concert levels.....Wall reflections havnt bothered me that much... alot of paintings on the walls confuse the reflections.. It dont seem to mess up the imageing... I was worried at first... None of the guys coming over,, have,nt complained. Complained?????? No. My friend - your system is breathtaking, including your top end. Some simply have no idea just how incredible it sounds. I still haven't recovered after hearing those expensive woof woofs........ Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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