Cornwall Verticals vs Cornwall Horizontals

[4432bravo]

I understand that early Cornwalls had vertical horns and later, but before the II's the horns were rotated to horizontal.

1. Is this correct?

2. Why are the verticals the preferred units?

Thanks,

Jerry

[mark1101]

First, welcome to the forum.

Second, you are correct that the horns were verts, then went to horiz before the 2s came out. Some others can chime in with dates.

I have owned both configurations of 1s. The only real difference is that you can lay down the verts so the cabinets lay horizontally on the floor. Mostly for convenience but also to give slightly more bass output.

[Frzninvt]

Mark got it, they offer more placement options than the horizontal versions, but the drivers are the same. They also make for a wider sound stage when placed upright since the horns are on the outer most, upper portion of the cabinet. My '62 Verticals are also designated as a Cornwall II right on the label. I think due to the rarity of them as they are not as common, makes them more desireable, in addition they make for a killer center channel since Klipsch does not really offer a bonafide center channel for Heritage users so that is where the creativity comes into play.

[WMcD]

Maybe someone can confirm what I have gleaned.

The very first Cornwalls had a slot in the back for the port. This was described in a paper by PWK. They may have had vertical midrange and tweeter. This configuration of horns was used by ElectroVoice in their Building Block kits for home assembly.

Sometime later, the vent was changed to what we are used to; retangular at the bottom in the front. The vertical orientation was retained. This model was called the Cornwall II (first instance). The horns were also offset horizontally. I don't know whether the boxes were meant to be placed . . left versus right . . so that the tweeters were more outward or toward the center.

Sometime later, the horns were shifted to a horizontal placement (long side horizontal) and vertical alighnment (tweeter, mid, and woofer centered at the same vertical line).

My guess is that this change had to do with the use of the CW as a center speaker. It would avoid the issue of the mirror image units and how to use one as a center. My recall is that the II designation was dropped but it may not have been exactly sync-ed with the advent of the centered drivers/horns.

For good or bad, the CW was eventually redesigned with an inhouse tweeter and midrange horn and driver, these were made of plastic. At least it kept the line going. This was the "new" CW-II.

The point to all that is that there have been many versions of the CW and there was a very early use of the term "Cornwall II".

- - - -

There has been traffic regarding the orientation of the K-77 tweeter which is used on the Heritage. Some like it vertical. The radiation patterns published by EV show some, but not much difference.

OTOH, I've not seen a published spec on the midrange horn.

It should be that it has a fairly constant pattern on the long axis of about 90 degrees. I.e. fairly constant in the horizontal if the long axis is horizontal. Some with vertical if long axis is vertical.

The short axis should exhibit narrowing as frequency goes up. It is not constant directivity. Rather, controlled directivity. Note this is exactly the opposite of what you'd expect if you put a lightbulb at the driver. The short axis does not give a narrow pattern overall. It only get there at high frequencies.

The result is that turning the midrange is going to have some effect on room echos at various frequencies. Exactly which is best can't be predicted because we don't know the room problems.

My thought is that the long axis can be used to keep reflections off the walls, or off the ceiling/floor. But you only get one. So you can only solve one problem. And it may be that they are equally bad. As I've said before, the issue may be aiming the side lobes away from close hard surfaces, rather than aiming toward the listener.

- - - - -

The directivity issue is, IMO, addressed in the new THX system. It seems to me that they're going for a controlled pattern with the vertical being narrow. This means the horn must be taller in the vertical.

Gil

[IB Slammin]

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On 6/16/2004 2:41:26 PM mark1101 wrote:

First, welcome to the forum.

Second, you are correct that the horns were verts, then went to horiz before the 2s came out. Some others can chime in with dates.

I have owned both configurations of 1s. The only real difference is that you can lay down the verts so the cabinets lay horizontally on the floor. Mostly for convenience but also to give slightly more bass output.

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No, Mark. Just the opposite. Own 72' Verts and 75' Horz both 1s. When the ports are coupled to the floor.... the low end is better in all respects. Horz are better without risers. Verts are nice as centers, on their sides with ports bolted together. Nice and wide.(IMHO) Why do we differ? Maybe rooms?

Regards,

TC

[Istari]

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On 6/16/2004 2:52:41 PM Frzninvt wrote:

Mark got it, they offer more placement options than the horizontal versions, but the drivers are the same. They also make for a wider sound stage when placed upright since the horns are on the outer most, upper portion of the cabinet. My '62 Verticals are also designated as a Cornwall II right on the label. I think due to the rarity of them as they are not as common, makes them more desireable, in addition they make for a killer center channel since Klipsch does not really offer a bonafide center channel for Heritage users so that is where the creativity comes into play.

----------------

AH!, but Klipsch does make a center channel for the Heritage line.

Originally the center for Khorns was a Hersey with a X-over that tuned the mid and high freq drivers (at the expense of bass output) to the freq response of the Khorn. Next came the Cornwall as a center for the K-horns, but due to higher distortion levels in the Hersey and Cornwall PWK stated that for those wanting a center channel for the "2HP3" three channel stereo a Belle or La Scalla would be the best choice due to its 3 way horn loaded - lower distortion - nature.

A center for a pair of Khorns would be a matching Belle (same wood & finish) or a La Scala (not as a high WAF), a center for the Belles would be another Belle, for the La Scallas another La Scalla same goes for the Cornwall and Hersey models.

Now these are not small units and usually can't be out on top of a RPTV or CRT monitor so special consideration on placement is a must.

Many folk use the Academy as a center for the Heritage line, but its not a Heritage speaker and its a two way.

I have both an Academy and a Belle the Belle of course is the winner...

[Frzninvt]

I agree Ishtari, hence why I use a La Scala for a center channel.

[mark1101]

IB,

I always noticed more bass when I laid my verts down. I never really experimented with it that much. I attributed the increase in bass due to more of the speaker being coupled to the floor.

But you bring up an interesting comment about risers. More bass without risers, makes sense to me since the speaker sits flush on the floor, thus better coupling.

Well, my '73 verts have risers. Maybe that's why they make more bass when laying down. I never took the risers off to see how they sound upright without risers. Maybe I would get the best bass in that configuration.

Anyone have any ideas about this?

Thanks

[dmethe3]

Freezin'

Would love to hear your system sometime.Live in NH.Where in VT?

Dave