Jay481985 Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 oops read down sry hit enter before i made a statement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 16, 2004 Author Share Posted June 16, 2004 just wanted to know which is more appropriate for mostly music and some ht. Which will go louder and what are your preferences. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 inquiring minds want to know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b-man1 Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 i do not know specifics but can almost guarantee either will be "loud enough". i think the only choice is if you want a large water-heater looking sub or a huge heavy box in your room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 One PB2-Plus uses TWO dB12 woofers versus one TV12.Two dB12 woofers move MORE air than one TV12. PB2-Plus will play ouder in the same room size as a Ultra,unless compared to a dual TV12 sub like the PB2-Ultra. Simple Only heard the first revision Ultra subs,but quality should be great with both.Both are tuned for depth and are quite linear.Should be even here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 You get a few more dB from the PB2+ due to the 2 drivers, but it has a much larger footprint than the Ultra. The Ultra (I have not personally heard) has a better driver which may lend itself more to music. I was in the same dilemma as you as to which of the two to choose. After several e-mails with Tom at SVS, I went with the PB2+ due mostly to the room I was using it in (4500 cu.ft.). I can not imagine being disappointed with either one. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedoc Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I have a PC-Ultra in a 4000 square foot family room and it is set at only 40% gain. Any louder and it overdrives the other speakers to the point where dialoque is even hard to pick up. I like my bass and the ultra delivers in spades. After hearing it I still have a hard time believing anyone would want more in their home. It is also very musical. Tough decision but in the end the TV-12 driver really shines. Tom V. explained to that the Ultra only gives up only 3-5 db to the PB-2 Ultra believe it or not. Below is a copy of his e-mail to me. I don't think he would mind. Hello, Will you be able to place the subwoofer in a corner of the roompreferably a corner near the key seating positions? Which receiver and speakers are you using in the system? The PB-2Ultra will have about 3-5dB more output capability compared to a single PC_Ultrabut both have the capabilities to extend below 20hz in your room. When listening to action oriented DVDs, do you occasionally use loud to very loud volume levelsperhaps even approaching reference levels? On the music side of things, do you have many pipe organ titles in your collection? Tom V. SVS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinipig523 Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 from what i have heard on other forums, the svs ultra driver possesses a different characteristic or sound (for lack of a better term) relative to the db-12 woofer (plus woofer). it lies in the engineering and design of the tv-12 which makes it FAR FAR superior to any other woofer on the svs product line (yes, even more so than my db-12 woofer). it may account for only 1-2db increase over a comparably sized enclosure holding a db-12 woofer, but the sound, the tightness, the clarity... is far better with the tv-12 than with the db-12 (much less the isd). yes kiddies.. this is why they call it the "vaunted" tv-12 driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juba310 Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 If my "low-end" PCi sounds as good as it does, I can't imagine how great these other subs sound. I really wish they had SVS demo rooms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 ---------------- On 6/20/2004 3:34:17 AM pinipig523 wrote: from what i have heard on other forums, the svs ultra driver possesses a different characteristic or sound (for lack of a better term) relative to the db-12 woofer (plus woofer). yes kiddies.. this is why they call it the "vaunted" tv-12 driver. ---------------- SVS is a great company and they make solid products, however, they are very much legends in their own mind and in the minds of a very small group of avid followers that make their products more "cult" than mainstream. The TV 12 was designed essentially by Tom V which could account for some of it's "vaultedness" so to speak. From an engineering standpoint the TV12 theoretically should sound louder but inferior to the db12 due to the fact it was designed for longer excursion. Unless the laws of physics have changed It takes more time to cover greater distances unless the cone is made stiffer and made to move at higher velocities,it's that simple. These higher velocities have to be controlled somehow, either mechanically or by an amplifier or both. Therefore the entire electro/mechanical system has to become considerably more complex. As I said before this is all theoretical since good design can overcome some of the physical issues. While I haven't heard a SVS sub with a tv12 driver I have heard the db12 drivers (in my own, excellent sounding PB2+)and can say that the timbre so well matches the timbre of the Klipsch LF drivers in the Reference series, one would almost swear they were designed to compliment each other. Jerry Rappaport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Bonedac... "I have a PC-Ultra in a 4000 square foot family room" Wow, so your room is 40 feet by 100 feet? That is some room! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedoc Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 IndyKlipschFan, My bad, meant to say cubic volume. But room is 20X30' with 10' ceilings. So actually does great in 6000 cubic foot room with large entry into another room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 20, 2004 Author Share Posted June 20, 2004 thanks for all the advice but it seems that im being swayed into the pc ultra now that i find it is only 3-5 db off the pb2 ultra. But for the same price even cheaper i think I could get the pb2+ which i like more so because it is a box and not a watercooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 I have a PB2+ and a PC Ultra and I'm sure you would be happy with either one. I used the PB2+ by itself for about 8 months, and after I got the PC Ultra I calibrated it to the same level as the PB2+ and then used it by itself for a couple weeks. I had to set the gain on the PC Ultra higher to get the same SPL as the PB2+ naturally, but I would have been perfectly satisfied with either sub. If I could only keep one sub though I would keep the PB2+. I'm glad though that I don't have to make that choice, together these 2 subs are unreal. After setting the phase and dialing down the gain on both subs to compensate for the extra 3.5 dBs I was getting, the house shaking bass was totally effortless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
007 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 "4000 square foot family room" Do you live in a Hotel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 There is an excellent review on the PB2U on hometheaterforum.com http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201221 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 ---------------- On 6/21/2004 5:01:41 AM 007 wrote: "4000 square foot family room" Do you live in a Hotel? ---------------- he meant cubic feet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 ---------------- On 6/21/2004 12:33:04 AM RickB wrote: I have a PB2+ and a PC Ultra and I'm sure you would be happy with either one. I used the PB2+ by itself for about 8 months, and after I got the PC Ultra I calibrated it to the same level as the PB2+ and then used it by itself for a couple weeks. I had to set the gain on the PC Ultra higher to get the same SPL as the PB2+ naturally, but I would have been perfectly satisfied with either sub. If I could only keep one sub though I would keep the PB2+. I'm glad though that I don't have to make that choice, together these 2 subs are unreal. After setting the phase and dialing down the gain on both subs to compensate for the extra 3.5 dBs I was getting, the house shaking bass was totally effortless. ---------------- Rick honestly which would you keep for just music and maybe some movies here and there the ultra or the pb2+? which is musically better? which looks better also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 The only music I ever listen to with the subs on are either DVD soundtracks or DVD concerts, and to my ears I can't honestly pinpoint anything that makes me lean towards one sub over the other. They both sound great to me, whether singly or together. I have a really nice stereo amp, a Halo A-21 that mates so well with my RF-7s that I never use the subs for any stereo listening. So my opinions about the subs are based mainly on movie viewing. As far as looks go theres definitely a coolness factor that goes with the PC-Ultra. I still stand by what I said before though, I won't give up either one but if I could only keep one it would be the PB2+. But thats just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinipig523 Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 to jewish am prince... u say that the tv-12 should be inferior to the db-12, here are straight specs from the designer Tom and TC sounds (the maker of the woofers): The TV-12 Driver - A Closer Look: It is common knowledge the TV-12 Ultra driver has about a 1.5-2.0 dB advantage in clean output over the dB-12 Plus driver. But that doesn't tell the whole story. Anyone who has heard the TV-12 driver will tell you it definitely has a unique sound. Superlatives like refined, detailed, robust, authoritative, and bold are common from Ultra listeners. As part of this review, I asked TV-12 designer Tom Vodhanel why the Ultra driver performs so well. He said the difference lies in the motor design. The magnets are composed of strontium ferrite, with an extremely high field strength, providing excellent VC/cone control characteristics. The VC is "underhung" and always stays in gap, thus maintaining a consistently high motor strength (BL) over the entire excursion range. The maximum linear travel (Xmax) is quite high, about 28-30 mm. The aluminum VC is a proprietary 10-layer flat-wound design that has extreme thermal power handling capability (several thousand watts for 8-10 seconds). If the TV-12 is being fed a steady 500 watts and a 1500 watt transient is spiked into the signal, the VC retains the ability to translate that transient into a useable increase in sound pressure. A lesser driver already being pushed beyond its thermal limits would simply ignore that transient. In fact, (TV-12 builder) TC Sounds acknowledges that no one else in the industry uses a similar design because it is so expensive. How does the Ultra driver sound to my ears? The TV-12 separates notes and conveys subtle changes in timbre better than any other woofer I have yet heard. The deepest notes seem to well out of a fathomless pit; not from the subwoofer itself. The TV-12 doesn't just pressurize the room, it pushes through the room, and is visceral even at low volumes. At high volumes it remains completely composed, and really digs for that last ounce of deep impact on big transients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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