jt1stcav Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Thanks, jazman. For a single man who has no manufacturing plant or employees (that I know of) that just builds 'em in his Hong Kong apartment, it ain't too shabby IMO. Granted, fit 'n' finish may not quite be up there with the likes of other top name manufacturers, but quality control is pretty decent. These BEZ components aren't the be-all end-all in SET/SRPP technology, and I'm sure he could use much better parts/upgrades, but for what little money I spent ($245 for the linestage, and $550 for the amp...shipping included), they're a great introduction to the world of high-end tube design, I think. I guess as long as I'm happy, then that's all that matters. Plus I do like their design...I also think they're attractive components! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Jim, I'm glad you finally get to hear your amp after an eight month getsation period - I hope you have named the little one after being pregnant with hope for that long! Edmund, what can I say? I have no need to challenge or provoke you. Unless a seller wants his email and/or phone number published, they want a private(and usually)local sale. No BS. The amps are out there for people to follow the trail. Edwin might consider the multiple Carys or the single Welbourne or Wright currently on Audiogon, as they should also float the SET boat. There is little need to get worked up over my observations, or to browbeat me into an argument. The last seven tube amps I have traded/sold have been PP amps. They all had constraints of one sort or another, and yet I have not heard of anyone being upset that I was degrading their new (or recycled) amp when I made this point. To the contrary; in every case it has been a deal gone good. And in every case, I have been happy with what I learned, both to the good and to the bad, and enjoyed what I heard with them. I think we all strive to get the sound we want with the least limits at a fair economic cost to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 ---------------- On 7/20/2004 9:58:27 PM edwinr wrote: . . . seeing that picture has promoted a deep desire in me to upgrade to a pair of Moondogs . . . ---------------- Just checking to see if you meant to use the word "upgrade" or you had accidentally typed the wrong word? Either way, looking at a picture of an amp is no way to make a good decision. I don't remember what reasons Ron Welborne gave for discontinuing the Moondogs. Maybe someone can jump in and say. I heard the amp that replaced the Moondog design, the DRD 300B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 I want everyone to try SET, and the sooner the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 I sure wish there had been a SET amp at the Indy event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 The DRD 2A3 monoblocks replaced the Moondogs, the DRD 300B monoblocks replaced the Laurels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Good catch. The DRD-300B are 7W, the DRD-2A3 are 3W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 I am searching for more comments but this one form ron w. at aa gets the ball rolling re: drd vs. moon: "Posted by Ron W ( M ) on September 21, 2003 at 14:26:33 In Reply to: Has anybody compared the DRD 2a3's against Moondogs? posted by Cuffclean on September 21, 2003 at 09:27:23: Well, the Moondogs are obviously not an option unless you're looking at a used pair. The DRDs have a little more resolution and dimensionality than the Moondogs. More top end extension too. Ron" another comment from his web site rE: drd vs laurels: "DRD 300B versus the Laurels: This is tough one, because the Laurels are very nice sounding 300Bs, but based upon my listening experiences I'd have to give the nod to the DRDs. And I do this for two reasons. For one; the Laurels and DRDs are really very similar sounding designs but the DRD 300Bs have a little bit better detail and more dimensionality. Secondly; the DRD design equals or beats the Laurels in sonics and does it for about two thirds of the cost" regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 ---------------- On 7/21/2004 7:17:06 AM sheltie dave wrote: Edmund, what can I say? I have no need to challenge or provoke you. Unless a seller wants his email and/or phone number published, they want a private(and usually)local sale. No BS. The amps are out there for people to follow the trail. Edwin might consider the multiple Carys or the single Welbourne or Wright currently on Audiogon, as they should also float the SET boat. ---------------- sheltie dave, Three pairs of Moondogs up for sale in the St. Louis area, at the same time, and all of the sales are SO-O-O-O private??????????? The aroma of fish ............................................. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 How about the Linn, or the Mac MC240? How about the two Paragons or the set of Hartsfields? Maybe you can come out and we'll go visit the husband and wife who have nineteen sets of Klipschorns in southern Illinois. I'll even show you the guy who is a little loopy and has a mid sixties Ferarri hidden under a wood pile. BTW, Tom P.(one of the Moondog owners) loves your bird's eye maple, and commends you on a truly beautiful setup! For whatever reason, St. Louis is a big pond for vintage and newer upscale stereo stuff. There is even a set of VRDs and a Blueberry in town. It really doesn't matter anyway, because reality is you don't often accept what you don't like. BTW, any comment on the DRDs for Edwin? Personally, it might sound pretty good on Klipschorns, and it is in Tempe, AZ. Ron even believes it may sound better than the Moondogs, IHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 ---------------- On 7/21/2004 10:02:25 AM sunnysal wrote: I am searching for more comments but this one form ron w. at aa gets the ball rolling re: drd vs. moon: "Posted by Ron W ( M ) on September 21, 2003 at 14:26:33 In Reply to: Has anybody compared the DRD 2a3's against Moondogs? posted by Cuffclean on September 21, 2003 at 09:27:23: Well, the Moondogs are obviously not an option unless you're looking at a used pair. The DRDs have a little more resolution and dimensionality than the Moondogs. More top end extension too. Ron" another comment from his web site rE: drd vs laurels: "DRD 300B versus the Laurels: This is tough one, because the Laurels are very nice sounding 300Bs, but based upon my listening experiences I'd have to give the nod to the DRDs. And I do this for two reasons. For one; the Laurels and DRDs are really very similar sounding designs but the DRD 300Bs have a little bit better detail and more dimensionality. Secondly; the DRD design equals or beats the Laurels in sonics and does it for about two thirds of the cost" regards, tony ---------------- I'd be very surprised to hear Ron not say the DRDs are better than the models they replaced...he would be shooting himself in the foot if he did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 ---------------- On 7/21/2004 5:04:39 PM sheltie dave wrote: How about the Linn, or the Mac MC240? How about the two Paragons or the set of Hartsfields? Maybe you can come out and we'll go visit the husband and wife who have nineteen sets of Klipschorns in southern Illinois. I'll even show you the guy who is a little loopy and has a mid sixties Ferarri hidden under a wood pile. BTW, Tom P.(one of the Moondog owners) loves your bird's eye maple, and commends you on a truly beautiful setup! For whatever reason, St. Louis is a big pond for vintage and newer upscale stereo stuff. There is even a set of VRDs and a Blueberry in town. It really doesn't matter anyway, because reality is you don't often accept what you don't like. BTW, any comment on the DRDs for Edwin? Personally, it might sound pretty good on Klipschorns, and it is in Tempe, AZ. Ron even believes it may sound better than the Moondogs, IHO. ---------------- sheltie dave, It's all very simple. You made the statement there were three pairs of Moondogs for sale, right now in the St. Louis area. Don't try to cover things with a smoke screen about Ferrari's under a wood pile, Linns, etc., or a statement like "It really doesn't matter anyway, because reality is you don't often accept what you don't like. There's nothing to like or not like. I do believe the motto for the state of Missouri is SHOW ME. Can you do that? As for DRD's, I will not comment since I have not had the pleasure of hearing them. If they are 2A3's, Erik is qualified to respond. If they are 45's, Cut Throat or Shapeshifter can give you the scoop. If they are 300s Triceratops has a pair under contruction and should soon be able to comment. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 I am sure you are right edster. two observations; 1, I have never heard a moondog or laurel owner say anything negative about thier amps, they seem to universally love them and the public has spoken...those amps are classics. 2, while I do suspect that ron w. will naturally try to place his new amps in the best possible light I also believe that he cannot be considered to be so cynical as to design a whole new series of amps without trying for any improvment in sound, I suspect that he genuinely feels that the drds do improve certain aspects of the previous series of amps performance. I cannot confirm or deny that this is really the result, but lets give him the benefit of the doubt, he has demonstrated his abilities in the past, no? warm regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Kudret knows more than I, since he is the owner, whereas my part was really just building them. They sounded fine here, and on par with the Moondogs (which I also own), though maybe slightly more detailed than the Moondogs. They do seem to require careful matching with preamps, however, and I would not want to speak for another in that respect. The amps have also had some time to work in, whereas I was on a pretty tight schedule to get them built and shipped within a specific time frame. I did very much like how they sounded, though. One thing that can be said about Welborne Labs components, is that they are very good looking; they have battleship-like durability and strength of construction; they use high quality parts; and are, for DH SET amps, unusually quiet with enormously efficient horn speakers. Kevin has said that the DRD 45s are even more transparent than his Moondogs, and seems to like them very, very much. We have also recently spoken of the SE OTL, which both Wolfram and Daddy Dee own. It is an outstanding amplifier; however, like the 45 DRD, does not have the type of muscle of other, more powerful push-pull amplifiers. edit: The original DRD used the 300B, and is different in some respects than the one that is now offered by W. Labs. The original had an output of approx. 13-14 watts with an input of around 1.5 volts. The figure of 13 to 14 watts output is accurate, and is associated with the choke loading aspect of the design. It's something I'm going to also try with......something else I'm working on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 ---------------- On 7/21/2004 6:02:11 PM sunnysal wrote: I have never heard a moondog or laurel owner say anything negative about thier amps, they seem to universally love them and the public has spoken...those amps are classics. ---------------- Interesting. I had been under the impression that there was only *one* great set of Moondogs out there, owned by a former frequent poster in this forum. I guess it must have been my mistake. When I heard the DRD 300B they had little if any control of the bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Hi Tony, I wasn't trying to find fault with what you posted, just that it is natural to comment positively on your current product. Ron did a bang up job with the 'old' kits and I am sure he worked hard to improve on them with his new product. IMHO the Moondogs especially achieved a kind of 'cult' status. I'm sure Ron's intention is to improve on his former product and from what many have said he has done that. I would love to audition a pair of the DRD 2A3 monoblocks in my system to compare them with my JF Lessard Horus monoblocks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 "Interesting. I had been under the impression that there was only *one* great set of Moondogs out there, owned by a former frequent poster in this forum. I guess it must have been my mistake." Paul, unless you have no self-respect, it is not very nice to say thing behind people back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Good point, Neo. But since "he" is a frequent lurker, it's not really behind his back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted July 21, 2004 Author Share Posted July 21, 2004 On 7/21/2004 6:02:11 PM sunnysal wrote: I have never heard a moondog or laurel owner say anything negative about thier amps, they seem to universally love them and the public has spoken...those amps are classics. ---------------- Still fishing for ex Moondog owners comments. Maybe none of the ex Moondog owners ran them throgh Klipsch speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 What would you like to know about the Moondogs? I am a current Moondog owner, and have used them with Klipschorns. The Moondogs are honestly very straightforward SET amplifiers. There is nothing really out of the ordinary in terms of circuit design. The PSU section is well done, with input capacitors across all voltage dividers. The input,driver, and output sections are AC coupled (which means they use coupling capacitors), and the power and OPT transformers are very good. Is there something specific you're thinking about, Flynn? Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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